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Post by adrini on May 5, 2013 22:13:34 GMT -5
It's your cross over, there is a reason I let it open till you could respond.
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Post by adrini on May 5, 2013 22:18:30 GMT -5
villains coming up soon. There will be Slade, and Deleon, and Davis. Also a few other fun folks.
Also the solo story line died a long time ago. Feel free to make it team, in fact please do so.
The third scene had to be done to wrap up an issue from early on and to open the door to what is on the way. I personally liked how it fleshed out Adrien, who will continue to play a roll, but I am - as ever- open to any and all improvements.
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Post by The Wonderful Wachter on May 25, 2013 2:52:48 GMT -5
It's a long issue and I think for how it drags on in parts yet packs in so much is a mistake most of the Veteran UDCU writers have learned from.
You have a lot happening. I still can't find myself sure of Adrien's motives. And this would have been better broken up into two issues with slightly more focus on the fair/faire angle to begin then the journey which maybe it's my sleep talking... but I don't seem to recall it happening. The fact that you have so much exposition would have merited from being broken up into two different issues... Plus a lot of the talk seemed to be happening in public. For a family that was raised to be paranoid and for Dinah to know better.... that reads all kinds of wrong.
As for a few specifics... With Dinah's opening reasoning behind choosing codenames then you segue into Roy and Ollie going on about Arrow works against what would likely come up in conversation. They use arrows so if you say "Arrows!" how are you supposed to know the difference? Colors help a bit but not much when shortened. Now you might be building Roy up to become Arsenal later but that'd have been the more logical choice... At least one I can see Dinah coming up since she'd take Oliver's side. Then there's the whole matter of "ArrowTech" and "Arrow III" plane and how they're likely going to show up in Star City... It's a lot to suspend your belief on who these guys are if they start fighting crime or worse, fighting White Collar and Mercs who would more likely to know of these fine details.
(That is unless Diggle gets Arsenal... Wasn't quite sure if he gets to play dress up or not.)
I like that you used Arthur King for Merlyn's name or at least used it as a name to play Oliver off against. It's classic and of the corny/campy things of an Antagonist that I I can get behind. Malcolm Merlyn may sound cooler but it does quite have the ring and connotations of Arthur King VS Oliver Queen.
Slade had a fine introduction for once though as much as a part of me loves Arrow... Another part of me died inside when I realized you weren't using the American Super Soldier. ;_; Either that or since he's a world traveler, he picked up quirks along the way. (This scene had a lot of typos BTB... Cleave knife? Should have just said cleaver.)
Overall, more typos/errors than the last issue but that could faulted with the fact it's twice the length. I like that you are finally getting to the action but it'd have been better had you broken it up into two issues and rearranged the scenes a tad. You could have had the Slade scene happen in the first part and half the exposition with some more focus on the faire/fair. Then you could have had the journey (with the rest of the exposition of the secret stuff), meeting Brave Bow, and a minor action scene to go with it.
Not a bad issue. Not a great one either. I do like the characters and I've seen you take MRP's advice of adding some movement into your speech. So. Good job.
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Post by adrini on May 25, 2013 12:03:17 GMT -5
I'm getting the feeling that it is better to be too short then too long. I'll keep that in mind.
I'm keeping somethings to myself to be revealed in future chapters, though that you have questions is a good sign. Adrien's motives are among them. So is Diggle's future role.
As for Dinah, as far as she knows this is her last and their first and last gig. The names are only being used over the radio and the mission is believed to be an in and out. If they were choosing names for a longer period of time she would have made other suggestions. As it were she just wanted to get home and have some time with her better half. They've both been putting in overtime. He could have gone with "the duck" for all she cared. Colors seemed easiest. Same with all the Arrow named stuff. If they knew they were heading to full time Super Hero work things would be different. They don't.
Auther King was the original Merlyn's name actually. I cannot take credit for that one. Though I did borrow from Arrow for the wife issue.
I have been doing an insane about of research to do Slade better and I'm glad it's paying off. I can tell you he has his all american moments to, so don't give up on seeing that just yet. Part of it is, yes he has been traveling for a while.
I'm glad the issue was alright, even if it wasn't great. It's the last real foundational before the action really starts happening. Also before things do start getting darker. Shorter issues will help, I think.
Update: Split the chapter. Should make it more manageable.
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Post by The Wonderful Wachter on May 25, 2013 13:07:02 GMT -5
Auther King was the original Merlyn's name actually. I cannot take credit for that one. Though I did borrow from Arrow for the wife issue. I've been told before that Arthur King was just an alias and we never knew his true name by someone who knew more about GA than me but I dunno. I was gonna have fun with it all back when I was doing Ultimate Arrow and use all the identities for him. The Ultimate Royal Flush Gang was a twist on their canonical origins with their names giving rise to their "role." Arthur King was going to be related, possibly the husband of Bonnie King (Miss Arrowette) which made him the father of Arrowette who was one of Ollie's children that was stolen to be raised as a Starling Archer. That made him the "King" of the Royal Flush Gang. Thea Queen, jealous of her brother was going the Queen of the Royal Flush Gang. And so on. Would have been a bit like the people behind the Undertaking except they were people with a vendetta against Ollie and his order. Then Tommy and/or Malcolm Merlyn were going to be part of Ollie's archers and they end up switching sides. They were going to be the Dark Arrow/Black Arrow to go along with Roy's Red Arrow, Ollie's original Green Arrow. Connor's the Emerald Arche, etc... Man... I miss that story. If only I had posted my uposted issue two and given myself two weeks... But at least we got you on the board as part of the deal. Feel free to borrow the Arrowette as Merlyn's daughter idea. They do have the same last names after all... I can even make mention, depending on her age, that she's on the 2012 Team to go with a few of my characters that are or reserves.
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Post by adrini on May 25, 2013 14:59:12 GMT -5
Auther King was the original Merlyn's name actually. I cannot take credit for that one. Though I did borrow from Arrow for the wife issue. I've been told before that Arthur King was just an alias and we never knew his true name by someone who knew more about GA than me but I dunno. I was gonna have fun with it all back when I was doing Ultimate Arrow and use all the identities for him. I was told by my father, who was told by my grandfather who read the first green arrow back in the stone age. However my grandfather also had seven kids to look after and a full time job so I'm not putting money on how exactly he followed the minute details.
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Post by Stardrifter on May 27, 2013 19:59:29 GMT -5
So I can definitely see how that would have been super long issue. I finished #5 and felt it just stopped rather than ended, only to discover it was one issue split. So that makes sense. But then #6 had the same problem. Not as badly, but again the ending kinda felt lackluster.
I'm happy to finally be seeing some costumes and such, but I still feel like this is just dragging itself out. I love how you've quickly established how these people are a family, but now they need to DO something. Enough of the family dynamic for a bit and make with some action. And action doesn't necessarily have to be fighting.
Otherwise you're doing well. You write relationships and dialogue very well. If you could just get a sense of urgency in your pacing you could have a great series instead of just a good one. Keep em coming.
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Post by adrini on Jun 11, 2013 15:34:09 GMT -5
Felt it was right to give a heads up.
I started the action packed part of the story and just...couldn't... Stop. Do now the first arch is done and awaiting beta reading. I just finished the summary for the second arch (much more action filled) and will start that some time soon.
Like I said, the story kind of took over on me, so more coming. Cards on the table and all that.
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Post by Stardrifter on Jul 3, 2013 23:54:30 GMT -5
So #7 was good, if a bit dull. I'm starting to realize my problem with the series in general, which is that there's not a lot of forward momentum for the plot. You focus so much on character, which you do very well, that I don't feel like much is happening. On top of having so many characters already, then adding more, the "plot" is grinding to a halt.
Again, you write very well and make very distinctive characters. I just wish it was balanced more. I haven't read the next issue yet to see if the pace quickens there, so if it does I apologize.
As for the issue at hand, the reveal about Mia felt kinda convenient. Just happened to be her? And I know it's a team title, but I'd like to see more of Ollie. He seems a bit under represented. I loved Ted at the end and hope to see more of him. Keep em coming.
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Post by The Wonderful Wachter on Jul 4, 2013 3:04:40 GMT -5
Other than any hint general lack of reviews plaguing the site... I really don't know why this title isn't getting more reviews. I second what Star said. You introduced a lot of characters from the get go. Then you introduce more without ever giving them more of a chance to be developed. Rinse and repeat. Knowing your plans for Rose, Issue 7 seems like a bad idea to try and combine so many plotlines into one.
Also not quite sure how I feel about Slade resorting to fencing or Rose not having white hair. <_<;;
Might help to try and do some side issues such as Team Arrow: Speedy, Team Arrow: Red, Team Arrow: Diggle, etc... since you say you're so far ahead. Focus on some characters with a fraction of the length of your main title. At least so we can catch our breath and know who we're dealing with.
While the reveal for Mia is convenient, these sort of coincidences are a staple of literature. And I know I did most of Ted's dialogue but it still put a smile on my lips to finally see a scene I helped with awhile back make it to the page.
--
Some general pet peeves at the start of 8. We have coding for a reason. It makes your story look neater if the scene breaks are centralized and if you italicize or color dialogue through comm-systems. Still don't know why they'd take Thea.... Or Rose. Thea's one thing but random 17 Year Old Girl they just met?
Very good action and impressive scene breaks, I wished you'd have got here sooner. With the length, I'm not sure if I missed the finer details of the more quiet parts cause honestly, I read quickly and skim unless I need to read word for word or if it's been so long since I read it but I'm not quite sure why any of this had to be done this way. I'd rather blame it on me and reading than you as a writer since you do have talent.
Finally... I know what comes next. ^_^
And I too want to see more Ollie.
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Post by adrini on Jul 4, 2013 11:37:39 GMT -5
Other than any hint general lack of reviews plaguing the site... I really don't know why this title isn't getting more reviews. I second what Star said. You introduced a lot of characters from the get go. Then you introduce more without ever giving them more of a chance to be developed. Rinse and repeat. Knowing your plans for Rose, Issue 7 seems like a bad idea to try and combine so many plotlines into one. Also not quite sure how I feel about Slade resorting to fencing or Rose not having white hair. <_<;; Slade fenced? Sorry I missed that. Rose did, and she was awesome. I borrowed from an animated series for her hair. It will go white about the time she looses an eye. It'll come. Might help to try and do some side issues such as Team Arrow: Speedy, Team Arrow: Red, Team Arrow: Diggle, etc... since you say you're so far ahead. Focus on some characters with a fraction of the length of your main title. At least so we can catch our breath and know who we're dealing with. I was going to do that post wedding (aka, soon) when they are "activated" so so speak. I need to with all the storylines I'm trying to juggle. I can sooner, though. Just say things have started getting messy in star city, so it's time to clean up some. It's not like these things are hard to write, I have to tell them to calm down.While the reveal for Mia is convenient, these sort of coincidences are a staple of literature. And I know I did most of Ted's dialogue but it still put a smile on my lips to finally see a scene I helped with awhile back make it to the page. Mia was hard on alot of levels. She's a victim of sexual violence even in the comics, and I knew I couldn't get away from that here. I also know the rules on sex scenes and I didn't want to write that anyway. The question of how she comes to be with them was challenging. If they just found her they would get her patched up and put her in a home to recover, end of that character. I had to give them a reason to take her in. Lost family worked, and allowed me to build Canary's family history some for the Birds of Prey title I'm starting soon.
-- Some general pet peeves at the start of 8. We have coding for a reason. It makes your story look neater if the scene breaks are centralized and if you italicize or color dialogue through comm-systems. I will go back and make it look pretty, promise.Still don't know why they'd take Thea.... Or Rose. Thea's one thing but random 17 Year Old Girl they just met? Thea and Roy are the tech people. You keep one on the inside and one on the outside. Or if you have two areas, split them that way. They can also fight, of course. But for this mission they needed one person to damage internal systems, and one to trigger outside. Hence Thea.
Rose has no real shame about what she does for a job. She is a trained merc. They were going into a large camp of possibly armed men. She was welcomes to help. Also remember it was Thea who gave the all clear on that. The adults would have to approve it from there.Very good action and impressive scene breaks, I wished you'd have got here sooner. With the length, I'm not sure if I missed the finer details of the more quiet parts cause honestly, I read quickly and skim unless I need to read word for word or if it's been so long since I read it but I'm not quite sure why any of this had to be done this way. I'd rather blame it on me and reading than you as a writer since you do have talent. It all had a point, I'm closing the opening arch, finally. The whole point of the arch is to introduce my...small army of characters. Once it is done, and I'm more and more thinking I sold just post them as I have them done, I'm doing a info page so people can jump into the much more action packed second arch if they just aren't interested in how the crew got together.Finally... I know what comes next. ^_^ Yes you do. And I too want to see more Ollie. You will. There's a certain town that is in for a shock sooner rather then later.
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Post by Stardrifter on Jul 4, 2013 16:13:34 GMT -5
#8 was good. Moved along nicely. Some of the banter was a bit much. I could do without any more bird related puns about Dinah for a while I hope we see some sort of repercussions to Ollie killing. Seemed like a big deal to gloss over. Keep em coming.
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Post by Stardrifter on Jul 7, 2013 17:41:11 GMT -5
The short was an interesting scene. I felt you went in circles a bit with the argument. There were some errors and I noticed you changed names a bunch. Diggle, Digs, John and Dinah, Di. It's fine in dialogue but in descriptive text it should be consistent or you might confuse the reader. When you threw John out of nowhere, I was left wondering if there was another person with them that I had missed.
It's nice you addressed the issue of Ollie killing, but in the end it feels like a missed opportunity. Having as many characters as you do, it would have been nice if this was something we could see people disagreeing on. All of the characters being a loving, supporting family who agree on everything and never do anything to upset each other is kinda boring. Conflict brings drama and excitement, even if the conflict is as minor as a disagreement.
Keep em coming.
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Post by The Wonderful Wachter on Jul 7, 2013 17:54:36 GMT -5
I thought the same thing when she had me critique the rough draft. If there is one thing I dislike about this series, it's that everyone always seems to agree and there isn't any conflict between the egos of the cast. I can't recall a single instance where Team Arrow wasn't all hugs but since I know some of the people who will hang around off and on as support, I'm hoping to see some chaos added into the mix.
<_<;; It's also made me turn my characters whenever they appear in this title as more jerks than they usually are to balance everything out.
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Post by Stardrifter on Jul 8, 2013 21:31:36 GMT -5
Your bios don't seem to be formatted correctly. Some straight links rather than pictures.
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Post by adrini on Jul 8, 2013 21:58:21 GMT -5
Bob has promised to fix that when he gets the time.
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Post by Stardrifter on Jul 8, 2013 22:13:23 GMT -5
Well then this message is for Bob. "Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, feed him for a lifetime" -Lao Tzu
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Post by DiscipleofBob on Jul 10, 2013 11:30:43 GMT -5
Well then this message is for Bob. "Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, feed him for a lifetime" -Lao Tzu Unless the man uses a Mac. Then they're never really going to get fishing because they spend all their time eating at sushi bars. And they're probably squeamish about hooks too. So really, give them a fish. But make sure to scale, clean, gut, etcetera because the man probably won't want to deal with it.
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Post by Stardrifter on Jul 13, 2013 13:26:51 GMT -5
Short was cool. I really like Ted. There was a lot of small typos and errors. But otherwise a good little scene. Keep em coming.
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Post by adrini on Jul 21, 2013 21:43:21 GMT -5
Finished arch one. Arc two is started. Not posting the last three was giving me a creative block I needed to clear.
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