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Post by Stardrifter on Mar 16, 2014 11:30:05 GMT -5
I wasn't feeling this issue. You still tend to write as if they're not underwater. The way you describe the action doesn't fit with being underwater a lot of the time.
I'm also not liking Arthur's character at this point. He's been in enough fights to know trash talking wins? When? What? He just comes across as kind of a dick. Heck you had him actually yell at someone that he's a prince. Like he's owed something for it.
I realize you're putting him through the ringer and he's cracking a bit, but for me he's going too far. Instead of persevering through adversity and showing why he's a real hero, he's sinking to the level of those pushing him. It's just not appealing to me.
Otherwise the issue was technically sound. Keep em coming.
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Post by Drake on Mar 16, 2014 12:13:37 GMT -5
I wasn't feeling this issue. You still tend to write as if they're not underwater. The way you describe the action doesn't fit with being underwater a lot of the time. I'm also not liking Arthur's character at this point. He's been in enough fights to know trash talking wins? When? What? He just comes across as kind of a dick. Heck you had him actually yell at someone that he's a prince. Like he's owed something for it. I realize you're putting him through the ringer and he's cracking a bit, but for me he's going too far. Instead of persevering through adversity and showing why he's a real hero, he's sinking to the level of those pushing him. It's just not appealing to me. Otherwise the issue was technically sound. Keep em coming. I'm not really getting your underwater movement complaint. In the comics, people stand, sometimes even walk underwater. I stay away from that, make the movements a little more realistic than in the comics, but it doesn't work? Because most of this issue was made up of fights, I'm assuming that was your big movement issue, correct? I reread the issue and don't see any attacks or moves that are unrealistic for superhuman a underwater. As for Arthur's attitude, well, he isn't Superman. Arthur has always been a bit of a dick. The fact that he's what? 18? 19? That doesn't help. So yeah, my view of Arthur is just different than yours I guess. He's still a great person, but he has flaws. Arrogance is one of them. Sorry for getting a bit defensive. I think your view of the story and characters is different than mine. Thanks for reviewing! Please stick with it! |
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Post by Stardrifter on Mar 16, 2014 13:11:17 GMT -5
The younger Atlantean had to make a backwards somersault to land unscathed.
He was knocked upwards in the water. He wouldn't need to somersault, simply start swimming or floating. And even if he was launched toward the ground, it would have to be with a crazy amount of force to make his impact into the ground hurt him. The water would naturally slow his momentum.
Kaldur ran forward.
Granted Atlanteans are stronger and built for underwater, but have you tried running underwater? He should swim or just launch himself and float.
Kaldur swung his legs around, flipping himself upward and slamming Arthur headfirst into the ground.
Again with water slowing momentum. This ones a little suspect because I'm not sure if how I envision I is how you meant to describe it.
These are just a couple examples from the first fight. It just seems to me that sometimes you forget your underwater when you write the action, or don't think it all the way through.
As for Arthur, I think it's a disconnect between your vision of the character and how I wrote him. You say Arthur is always kind of a dick, but that's the comics. That's not how I wrote him in this series. Obviously it's yours now and you're free to interpret him the way you want, but I feel the shift a bit jarring. If you jumped to the present you could have used the intervening years to hand wave it away.
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Post by Drake on Mar 16, 2014 13:35:18 GMT -5
The younger Atlantean had to make a backwards somersault to land unscathed.He was knocked upwards in the water. He wouldn't need to somersault, simply start swimming or floating. And even if he was launched toward the ground, it would have to be with a crazy amount of force to make his impact into the ground hurt him. The water would naturally slow his momentum. Kaldur ran forward.Granted Atlanteans are stronger and built for underwater, but have you tried running underwater? He should swim or just launch himself and float. Kaldur swung his legs around, flipping himself upward and slamming Arthur headfirst into the ground.Again with water slowing momentum. This ones a little suspect because I'm not sure if how I envision I is how you meant to describe it. These are just a couple examples from the first fight. It just seems to me that sometimes you forget your underwater when you write the action, or don't think it all the way through. As for Arthur, I think it's a disconnect between your vision of the character and how I wrote him. You say Arthur is always kind of a dick, but that's the comics. That's not how I wrote him in this series. Obviously it's yours now and you're free to interpret him the way you want, but I feel the shift a bit jarring. If you jumped to the present you could have used the intervening years to hand wave it away. Those first two are fair complaints. The last I must have envisioned differently than I described. My bad. Yeah, that's fair. What you wrote did make him different. I guess I let my vision of Arthur change what you wrote. I guess it could be explained away that Arthur's just struggling a lot, so he cracked. |
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Post by DiscipleofBob on Mar 17, 2014 22:54:37 GMT -5
I think this one line might just ruin the entire chapter for me.
Or at the very least it represents what I think is one of the fundamental flaws with this story.
Nearly every chapter so far, there's been one line that completely destroys the mood and tension, some throwaway line of humor that feels like something a marketing executive forced into a saturday morning cartoon to make it feel more "hip". It sounds like you're trying to force Arthur to be more relatable when the fact is these kinds of lines make him less so.
The underwater movement thing Stardrifter brought up is an issue, but considering the difficulty of writing full fight scenes underwater it's forgivable.
I don't see Arthur's attitude as anything out of character. Sure in Stardrifter's run he was a lot more reserved (and in some cases more mature), but in Atlantis he's surrounded by nothing but inhospitable dicks and their offensive thoughts. I find his actions to be nothing but reasonable, including trying to use his title or anything to get some respect.
The idea of Ocean Master being Arthur's father is either a glaring plot hole or an obvious bluff. We already know the mother's Atlantean and Arthur is a half-breed, so it obviously couldn't be Ocean Master. I know who Star was planning on the father being, though I don't know if you're planning to go the same route.
You still have some good plot with some nice twists. The school "arc" turned out to be a fake out I guess and now we know Orm's got a surface-dwelling assassin on the payroll. Looking forward to the next one.
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Post by Drake on Mar 18, 2014 0:30:20 GMT -5
I think this one line might just ruin the entire chapter for me. Or at the very least it represents what I think is one of the fundamental flaws with this story. Nearly every chapter so far, there's been one line that completely destroys the mood and tension, some throwaway line of humor that feels like something a marketing executive forced into a saturday morning cartoon to make it feel more "hip". It sounds like you're trying to force Arthur to be more relatable when the fact is these kinds of lines make him less so. The underwater movement thing Stardrifter brought up is an issue, but considering the difficulty of writing full fight scenes underwater it's forgivable. I don't see Arthur's attitude as anything out of character. Sure in Stardrifter's run he was a lot more reserved (and in some cases more mature), but in Atlantis he's surrounded by nothing but inhospitable dicks and their offensive thoughts. I find his actions to be nothing but reasonable, including trying to use his title or anything to get some respect. The idea of Ocean Master being Arthur's father is either a glaring plot hole or an obvious bluff. We already know the mother's Atlantean and Arthur is a half-breed, so it obviously couldn't be Ocean Master. I know who Star was planning on the father being, though I don't know if you're planning to go the same route. You still have some good plot with some nice twists. The school "arc" turned out to be a fake out I guess and now we know Orm's got a surface-dwelling assassin on the payroll. Looking forward to the next one. Thank you so much for pointing that out, Dob! It's an instinctual thing, putting those "one liners" into my writing, which mostly has to do with my coming off writing Spider-Man, which has dialogue that is very heavily joke (even bad ones) based. I'll fix that in the future. Again, thanks for that. I'm not going to lie to you. The Ocean Master dad thing is complete bull. Well, 75% bull. If you pay attention to my writing, you'll see the irony in that scene. I'm honestly very proud of what I did there, because, well, it isn't a lie. But it is. That's all I'll say. I'm glad you like where the plot is going. Expect the present in a few issues. |
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Post by Drake on May 24, 2014 13:05:26 GMT -5
15 is up
The solicit was wrong. Sorry, I had to cut this a little short. SPOILERS no one dies...yet.
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Post by Stardrifter on May 26, 2014 9:02:45 GMT -5
Atlanna threw her arms into the air emphatically as she floated out of the throne room, leaving the kind of Atlantis alone with his visitor. That's pretty impressive. Is Atlanna secretly Plastic Man? She must have super long arms.  A serviceable issue. It felt rushed. The scene with Arthur and Jenna in her dorm gave me whiplash. I know you're planning to wrap things up and move on, so I understand. Keep em coming.
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Post by Drake on May 26, 2014 9:36:37 GMT -5
Yeah, it was definitely rushed. I'm just trying to get something out for this and Outsiders at this point. May and April have been hell for me.
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Post by Drake on Jun 30, 2014 23:15:47 GMT -5
The penultimate issue to my run is up. The last scene was REALLY fun for me to write! I'm honestly sad now that I'm dropping the title, but I want to focus 100% on Outsiders and Guardians, alongside my script writing.
Anyway, I hope you enjoy it!
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Post by Stardrifter on Jul 2, 2014 18:25:34 GMT -5
Seemed very short to me. And I don't understand why Arthur wasn't utilizing his telepathy. You even had him ask Manta how he could trust him and I wanted to scream, "By reading his mind!"
Other than that it was good. I feel like the shortness of the issue meant you didn't take the time to hit home with the death. It felt brushed aside. The fight was good though and it's interesting to see where you're going to end up. Keep em coming.
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Post by Drake on Jul 2, 2014 18:30:17 GMT -5
It was about 2500 words so it wasn't TOO short...but yeah, you're right. It's a little on the short side. That's what happens when you procrastinate writing until the last day.
That telepathy point is a very good critique. I honestly forgot about him being able to read surface thoughts. That's a little embarrassing actually.
I don't know what more I could have done with the death during that period (Arthur caught in a frenzy, Orm coming, etc.) without making it feel a little forced or contrived. Ideas? Obviously I won't put them in now, but just for future reference.
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Post by Stardrifter on Jul 2, 2014 18:48:29 GMT -5
Just some more inner dialogue perhaps. If there wasn't time for Arthur to Do anything, you could have spent some time on what he was thinking and feeling. Yeah we had the dream sequence, but once he was awake and having to face it, some inner turmoil/grief would have been nice.
Or if he's in denial a bit and it hasn't really hit him, just some lip service to that. Except for lashing out at Mera, all Arthur really thought at the end was how Jenna would bury him.
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Post by DiscipleofBob on Jul 2, 2014 19:33:13 GMT -5
It's a shame you're ending the run, but I understand and appreciate that you're taking the time to wrap things up.
It's funny because I thought Black Manta was the assassin back in the Jinx chapter, and yet here we see him apparently being imprisoned in Atlantis for years. Must be Schroedinger's Manta.
If the run had gone on a bit longer, I would have liked to see more of Arthur in Atlantis before we got to this point, but for what we've got and the end goal I think it's a relatively good pace.
Black Manta had a good introduction, but I'm still unclear on why Orm ever let him live in the first place if he was such a threat.
The only real criticism I have would be that I would have liked to see a bit more development with the Triad Aquaman faced, especially since they had a bit more hype with their appearance and we never even got their names.
Overall, it's a great story and I wish I had more to say about this, but it's a lot more difficult to write long compliments than complaints.
Maybe someday Aquaman will join us in the present.
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Post by Drake on Jul 2, 2014 20:47:55 GMT -5
Orm doesn't really see Manta as a threat. His backstory would explain it, but I'm leaving the title so...yeah, in case it wasn't clear (and it will literally be stated next issue) Orm's biggest weakness is his arrogance. He always thinks he's one step ahead and stronger than his adversaries, whether it be Black Manta or Arthur.
The Triad was a throwaway group, honestly. I don't think I would have ever built them up further.
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Post by Drake on Aug 21, 2014 22:58:15 GMT -5
It's not quite as long as Dob's last issue of WW, but it's certainly a helluva lot longer than my usual! My run on Aquaman ends with #17--END GAME!
This is a big milestone for me. It's my first run on a title I've actually ended. My story is done. I'm proud of it--both the overall narrative and the last chapter. I'm sure the biggest critique will be that I tried to do too much with the last chapter, that there was too much exposition, but that's how it is. Still, I'm very happy with it! I completed a lot of the themes and stories I began with #11, and even concluded many of Star's own. Arthur's relationship with Jenna, his origin, Orm (everything to do with him), and Arthur's role as prince. All of those I put an end to, at least in a way. I'm especially proud of how I got to play with continuity and do it directly and quiet well, I think. Plus, I got to cameo Superman and Power Girl, and continued to show (if briefly) how bad ass Mera is.
In fact, I'm overjoyed with this brief run. I introduced Vulko, Mera, Kaldur, Black Manta, and a couple minor Atlanteans whom you may not know. I built on Star's previous run and developed Arthur, Jenna, Orm, and Atlantis. I had some fun fights, some shocking reveals, and a straight forward narrative that I think was both fun and compelling. To conclude, it was a pleasure and I can't wait to see what someone else does with Aquaman next!
I'd also like to thank Star for the idea of Arthur's father's identity. It was all him. Plus, he gave me a great story to build on. Thanks!
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Post by Stardrifter on Aug 23, 2014 12:04:34 GMT -5
Yeah you definitely tried to do too much in a single issue. The end was just a giant exposition dump. And honestly, I feel like maybe you should have left more of that open since you knew you were dropping it. It would have given the next writer more leeway.
All that said, not bad. It's hard for me to distance myself with your decisions on what I set up, since you made a lot of choices I wouldn't have, but it wasn't bad. An epic showdown and some nice character moments. I did feel Superman and Power Girl showing up, while nice from a universe building stand point, felt kinda superfluous.
As the second run on an established title, you did a good job. Followed up on what I was doing but did your own spin. Introduced new mythology and characters. I'm glad you kept to who I planned his father to be. My main goal on my run and what I had planned was to establish Aquaman on or close to Superman, WW, Captain Marvel etc. in power. So I'm glad you followed through.
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Post by Drake on Aug 23, 2014 14:28:10 GMT -5
Yeah you definitely tried to do too much in a single issue. The end was just a giant exposition dump. And honestly, I feel like maybe you should have left more of that open since you knew you were dropping it. It would have given the next writer more leeway. All that said, not bad. It's hard for me to distance myself with your decisions on what I set up, since you made a lot of choices I wouldn't have, but it wasn't bad. An epic showdown and some nice character moments. I did feel Superman and Power Girl showing up, while nice from a universe building stand point, felt kinda superfluous. As the second run on an established title, you did a good job. Followed up on what I was doing but did your own spin. Introduced new mythology and characters. I'm glad you kept to who I planned his father to be. My main goal on my run and what I had planned was to establish Aquaman on or close to Superman, WW, Captain Marvel etc. in power. So I'm glad you followed through. I'm glad you seemed to like it! I realized I tried to do too much but at this point I'm content with it. I knew I couldn't leave Arthur's origin open anymore and I wanted to cement Orm as a legitimate threat. Without that explanation, I feel like I'd be leaving a mystery that just ultimately would be solved in a lame way, just because whoever took up the title wouldn't know what I intended. Anyway, thanks again for the father idea. I was always going to run with that. It's such a great idea! |
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Post by DiscipleofBob on Aug 25, 2014 8:28:41 GMT -5
First of all, you really should have run several scenes by me before posting this chapter. Superman and Power Girl I gave permission for, and while Poseidon I had arranged with Stardrifter to be the father way back when Aquaman was started, I would have liked to have a say in his portrayal. But I know the Titan Oceanus was never discussed and I do have claim over him.
That being said, I won't ask you to change anything as I think I can still work with what's written, and I probably would have approved what you already have down.
The chapter was an excellent end to the arc. You picked up Stardrifter's run very well and aside from only a few minor hiccups you almost couldn't tell the two separate styles apart. I guess we still don't have Aquaman in the present, but we are at the point where a timeskip is at least feasible if the next Aquaman writer decides to go that route.
I do like the new take on Aquaman and Ocean Master, and I wish you were continuing the arc so I could collaborate with you on more Poseidon and other Greek myth stuff. You and Stardrifter should both be very proud of your collective work on Aquaman.
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Post by Drake on Aug 25, 2014 18:29:53 GMT -5
Thanks for the kind words! I'm so sorry I didn't contact you! For whatever reason--probably because I was rushing near the end--I didn't even think about it, but that's no excuse! I'm really sorry!
Again, I'm glad you liked it! It was truly very fun to write!
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