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Post by Ryan on Mar 18, 2013 15:40:07 GMT -5
Wow really good start. It's nice to see you've got some of the same characters claimed from way back. I'm really be interested in seeing what you have planned this time.
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Post by The Wonderful Wachter on Mar 19, 2013 8:17:54 GMT -5
Solid start after reading number one and the Wildcat issue. "Haven sounds like more of a shithole then Gotham. That's pretty impressive. As always your work is rock solid. You're setting big things up for the series like Star said just hope that the journey to issue number one is just as good as issue one. Being late to the part I can't really add a whole lot. 'Haven has always been more of a shithole than Gotham. I'm just making sure to do it justice and going in with the thinking that it's the breeding ground for the Gotham criminals or those that couldn't cut it in the sister city... Which in turn means you get the worst kind of people trying to make a name for themselves or make up for past humiliation. Wow really good start. It's nice to see you've got some of the same characters claimed from way back. I'm really be interested in seeing what you have planned this time. I really wanted to bring back Charlie and the Spoilers concept in general but unfortunately it doesn't fit this time around. People with good memories will be able to see me reusing a few of my plot threads and a few scenes will mirror what happened in Ultimate Grayson and Ultimate Spoilers but the story will be new and me writing it from the viewpoint of a youngin' who isn't the bright shiny light and an appropriate symbol for Haven and how it changes. Still... CHARLIE! I miss you! If I can find reason for you be part of my story, I swear I'll find you.
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Post by jackalope on Apr 1, 2013 1:28:48 GMT -5
Finally read it. Really good man. Great action- I could imagine the fluidity of the fighting. I'll admit I was a bit confused about who is who but I have a fair idea. I like the mix of foreshadowing and references. I really like (what I guess are) the Ninja-Manbats? (fuck yeah!). I love the cast. So yeah, don't fuck this up. (Haha )
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Post by The Wonderful Wachter on Apr 2, 2013 18:18:01 GMT -5
I'll admit, I'm not usually a fan of my fights and often I either have to watch something over and over again or read one fight after another to try to get it just right yet for some reason, this one flowed and I'm partially terrified of changing it when I reach the final issue of the Last Year Saga cause I think it has a perfect ratio of precise movement and glossing action as it.
Ninja Manbats will either show up in my second arc or that will be their origin, either way, the only thing cooler than a manbat is a ninja-manbat.
And our Fuzzy buddy Aaron will have a large role to play in the series. Second arc is tentatively titled "The Mysterious Disappearance of the Boy-Bat." Trying to give it sort of 50s, drive thru horror/mystery feel so the title may just change.
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Post by The Wonderful Wachter on Apr 9, 2013 18:57:08 GMT -5
Ultimate 'Haven 2 and Ultimate Outlaws: are finished. With Issue 3 mostly done. Going to try to release 2 alongside Batman #2 then Outlaw and Haven 3 will be posted some time after. Really angry at myself for failing in my goal last month. The depression over the anniversary of my dad's death combined with a sinus infection just knocked me on my ass. Sad thing is, I set that goal so that it wouldn't do that. ;_; --- Since you all have had enough time to read Haven 1, here's the dissection of the first Rhyme. I don't explain everything because that'd be too Spoilerish. Just how it relates to the issue in general, not the overall plot. If you think a word means something more, you're probably right. I chose everything for a for a reason. Verse 1Three tales come together, In the haven of blood and grime, To not finish what was started, Would be worse than a crime.Probably the most straightforward verse. Nothing complicated about. Line 1 The three tales: Talon, Red X, and Red Hood Line 2 "Haven of blood and grime." = Bludhaven, one of the dirtiest cities in America. Line 3 +4 It's the end of the Last Year and it finishes the story. It also is a direct reference to the character plotlines between Red Hood and everyone else. Plus, there's that moment where Jason leaves the fight and comes back to kick ass and take names. Verse 2A bird, a myth, a legend, They meet on the day of the heart, She must say goodbye to one and all, Before her journey has any hope to start.This verse describes the plot of Issue 1 so you guys should have been able to figure it all out. Line 1: Probably the most vague of the lines but it has the same meaning as Line 1, Verse 1. Each word could reference multiple characters so I'll leave it up to you to determine who was who. Line 2: The Blockbuster Event happens on Valentines Day Line 3: Everybody dies except Steph so she has to say "goodbye." Line 4: Volume 1 is Jason's journey from sidekick/trainee to hero. His story needs to be finished before Steph's can properly start. Verse 3Hush now as the story begins, Not at the start but at the end, Red rain shall fall, As our knight fights to defend.This Verse has so many veiled references and hints that I'm not going to reveal them all just yet. Lines 1 +2 Obvious in hindsight. the story begins at the end of the Last Year Saga. Line 3 Not going explain just what this one means but it refers to one character absolutely and another one maybe. All I will tell you, think about your Batman stories and what Red Rain is associated with. Line 4: Another obvious one even if it didn't necessarily come across as such in the narrative given Jason's personality. Jason is usually one of the Gotham Knights over in the DCU. He also fought like a knight, rescuing the damsel in distress. --- There you go. Any guesses on who is Jason's stalker and the deleted file in Cluemaster's folder? That's a fun little folder. For three out of four of the characters, it's going to eventually show you the evolution of said character and how they are portrayed within the series. Jason especially will go through multiple costume changes before he becomes Red X.
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Post by The Wonderful Wachter on Apr 23, 2013 7:28:52 GMT -5
Delayed by Injustice but finally up.
The Last Year Saga is underway.
I'll try to have the first batch of secret files up later today. Issue 3 should be out by the end of the month. Outlaws: *Insert Mystery Member here* depends on my progress for Issue 4.
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Post by The Wonderful Wachter on Apr 23, 2013 17:06:16 GMT -5
4 Posts in a row. Wooohooo!
I have the first of the Last Year Saga folders up. As you can see, I didn't go too Ultimate this time around in terms of costumes (if you couldn't tell from my descriptions).There will be additions as the year (issues posted) go on. Especially for Jason as he will evolve and grow every arc and later Stephanie when she starts involving herself.
Sorry about no folder on the Outlaws or file on Wildcat just yet. Not sure if I want to post a person's pic (Bruce Campbell is gone.... Hail to the King, baby... I'm using Lee Arenberg as a basis now) or go with the costume.
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Post by Drake on Apr 23, 2013 20:01:37 GMT -5
It was very good. There were a handful of noticeable grammar errors. The White Rabbit plot is interesting, but nowhere near as interesting as Cluemaster and the mysterious (who I assume is) Red Hood. Jason's cool, and obviously still very immature. Kate's kind of dull, at least right now. I hope you evolve her character more in the future.
8/10
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Post by The Wonderful Wachter on Apr 23, 2013 22:54:34 GMT -5
It was very good. There were a handful of noticeable grammar errors. The White Rabbit plot is interesting, but nowhere near as interesting as Cluemaster and the mysterious (who I assume is) Red Hood. Jason's cool, and obviously still very immature. Kate's kind of dull, at least right now. I hope you evolve her character more in the future. 8/10 There will always be a handful of errors from me as I care very little for perfection and read my final draft maybe two times at most when I'm done. For this issue, I noticed my recurring mistake was forgetting a word either unintentionally or cause I need to replace the batteries in my keyboard. I use this board mostly to experiment with characters and storytelling techniques. I'm not sure how Cluemaster tends to be one of my more interesting characters. He's very much like the one from Spoilers except we are "farther down the road" with him and you get to see what his curiosity and games cost him. Especially given Issue 1 where you found out he's to blame for Jason's ending. Who is to say the two plots aren't interconnected? The immaturity for Jason was something I wrestled with and had to speak to with Buck in order to come to terms with it. A lot can happen in a year. Jason just started wearing the cape and tights. He just started getting his training. And he will always be headstrong with killer survival instincts. There is one scene I might get a little bit of flak for though... Kate is very much the "straight man" (yes, yes... Jason and Ted would laugh at that) to Jason, Steph, Arthur, and the more eccentric characters in the story. It's a character dynamic I've never employed before and am currently experimenting with. She gets a scene in Issue 3 where you get to explore her a bit more but it won't be until my second arc that she should really come into her own as a character. So yeah, I can see why she'd be considered dull next to Artie and the more energetic Jason. You don't see much of her in Issue 2 and almost everything you hear about her in the end makes her come across as a "Why would she do that?"
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Post by The Wonderful Wachter on Apr 26, 2013 20:55:36 GMT -5
To chase a rabbit, Becomes quite the habit. But he who dares creeping, Will find himself weeping.
Ultimate ‘Haven #3 The Red Pill Pt 2. Creep Along
[/b][/center][/i][/color] There you have it, folks. A short introductory arc that introduces you to both the superheroics and the politics of 'Haven. Issue 3 was just barely... BARELY under my word cut off point once the "Last Time On" and the various extra stuff are taken off. So those of you who are not the two or three people who read the last issue... You're in for a treat. But at least it's a complete story which is what was deserved after waiting nearly two months. This issue underwent a drastic rewrite when I realized fisticuffs just wasn't the answer to solving the case of the White Rabbit and read all kinds of awkward. Quite a few easter eggs in it. And quite a few unanswered questions. If you want to know whats up with the Gallows and the case that MUST NOT BE TOUCHED then you're in for a treat. If you wonder just what the Queen of Hearts intends for 'Haven or where the mysterious hooded stranger Cluemaster spoke to is then stay tuned. The Last Year Saga is underway. Oh and if you don't have any guesses as to how Jack can do what he does and be insanely popular then I only have two words for you... Ride On.PS: If that Desmond Estate scene seems familiar to you... that's cause it is. 2/3 of it was recycled from Spoilers. It's a great introduction to the Desmonds and 'Haven's crimes that I felt it didn't need changing since even though the scenery and the characters have shifted around... Roland remains the same creepy gangster he was meant to be.
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Post by Stardrifter on Apr 27, 2013 19:57:32 GMT -5
I'm halfway through the third issue but had to stop. Issue three is way too long. It wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't, to be honest, so boring. I feel like these two issues have no energy to them. They're just plodding along and it's a chore for me to read. I'll do a more in depth review when I get the drive to finish issue three.
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Post by The Wonderful Wachter on Apr 27, 2013 20:36:31 GMT -5
I'm not seeing the lack of energy in issue 2. But I won't fault you on your opinion of issue 3 since that's a feeling I share. My goal is 3000-4000 words and any more than that is considered too much. Issue 3 hit the 4800 mark approximately when everything extra is taken out. I could have broken the second part into 2 issues with some additional content. I decided against it. Issue 3 should, SHOULD (since that's where you start to get the minor action and resolution) pick up at the end of the party scene.
So yeah, I knew going in that Issue 3 wasn't going to be universally enjoyable. You see a case being solved and are introduced to various characters and the beginnings of plotlines that lead to the Blockbuster event. Haven will have detective elements and action elements. You had the action in the first. Detective in second part. And the second was sooooooooo long. And the scene between Jason and Arthur was the worst offender.
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Post by Drake on Apr 28, 2013 17:12:03 GMT -5
I actually enjoyed issue 3 more than 2. It just felt more fun. It definitely was a little long, however, so that ends up with me giving yet another 8/10.
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Post by The Wonderful Wachter on Apr 29, 2013 1:53:59 GMT -5
I actually enjoyed issue 3 more than 2. It just felt more fun. It definitely was a little long, however, so that ends up with me giving yet another 8/10. Was Kate less dull to you this time around now that you got to see more of her?
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Post by The Wonderful Wachter on May 1, 2013 2:31:49 GMT -5
So fun to be ahead.
Ultimate Outlaws: Dragon is out. You finally get to learn what happened after Richard gave that "killing blow" to Wildcat. It also hints as to the true backstory of the Outlaws and why I call them the "World's Worst" with the reveal about Sensei and the Fearsome Hand. If you're keeping up, you might know a few other Outlaws that are up to bat (ha... pun intended) for their origins. In 'Haven 2, those trophies that Jason stole came from them (though two couldn't be stolen and Arthur is considered an unofficial member).
Personally, for me, I like the issue for the exploration of the training the sidekicks get. Not only do they learn the physical and the mundane... They do learn how to protect against the occult... And well, if you fail... You'll be sore the next morning as your body remembers exercises you don't.
I'll probably get some secret files up for the Original Outlaws soon. As for who is up next... After my next arc "The Curious Case of Aaron Langstrom," you'll have the chance to vote who you want to see revealed and what sort of training they specialize in.
As for that next arc...
Sorry... I don't have a rhyme or poem ready for it just yet.
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Post by DiscipleofBob on May 1, 2013 9:25:40 GMT -5
Characters just jump off the page and have a lot of personality. You're also possibly the best author on the site in terms of describing action IMO. The fight scenes (and other non-fight action scenes) work very well narratively speaking. They're appropriately chaotic but not too difficult to follow, and everything feels dynamic. The story also fills an important role on the site bridging the mundane of DC, like Batman, with the supernatural, like Demon Knights.
The story, while intriguing suffers from two things. 1. Phantom Menace Syndrome. We already know how this is going to end and it's just a matter of getting there. I personally find it difficult to sympathize with a character we know is just going to get killed(Jason Todd) and he's your main character. Granted, in the end you could just pull off him surviving or coming back to life. This is DC after all, and you're already dealing with the supernatural and the afterlife. 2. I get that a lot of the story focuses on mystery elements: conspiracies, shadowy organizations, and the like. But it feels like all the characters notice and know more than the reader about everything. Even the people who are investigating the mercenaries like Kate and Jason seem to know not just more about the main mystery, but about all the setting details. They make observations that mean something to them but nothing to the reader who's left in the dark. It gets to a point where it stops being intriguing and is just annoying. Especially when you reference one vague mysterious detail and then jump to a completely different one next paragraph.
On the other hand, it's still early in the story, and my complaints might be rendered moot once we go further down the rabbit hole.
Keep in mind, I'm also not making any assumptions based on DC canon or the canon of Ultimate DC pre-reboot. So if easter eggs from either are supposed to clue me in on the plot, they're not and probably won't.
Riddle are like jokes. If, instead of everything coming together with the answer/punchline, you have to explain them step-by-step, or if they never make sense to the reader, they lose value as a literary tool.
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Post by The Wonderful Wachter on May 1, 2013 15:35:16 GMT -5
Now this is the kind of review I love. Flattering then helpful in showing me what I can do better. Characters just jump off the page and have a lot of personality. You're also possibly the best author on the site in terms of describing action IMO. The fight scenes (and other non-fight action scenes) work very well narratively speaking. They're appropriately chaotic but not too difficult to follow, and everything feels dynamic. The story also fills an important role on the site bridging the mundane of DC, like Batman, with the supernatural, like Demon Knights. Thank you. A lot of my job (besides the biting my nails and hoping that I'll get a manuscript sent my way) in the past involved reading a ton of different up and coming writers and there is no better feeling of awesome than when you manage to critique a guy with a masters in English who doesn't know how to write at all while you're still effectively intern level and in school (Note to all of you: having a degree in in English or having a Ph.D. doesn't mean you know how to tell a decent story). It also allowed me to experiment with various styles when we reached the editing phase because I have to fit into the the writer's sense of prose.* * That's why you'll often see me trying out different styles on the board and I try not to tell the same sort of story twice... I'm able to do that by focusing on the characters and their relations to each other. It's also why, when I have the time, I do volunteer to fill in for people.The Bridge comment... I decided early on that this was not a Batman title. I was not going to try to be a Batman title. Nor was it going to be a Batman and Robin. I have Batwoman as one of my stars and one of the things she deals with is the occult. And while that's something Batman does handle sometimes, it's not a major focus. Just as it won't be a major focus for me and yet... so many things are mystical. Just wait until my Halloween special. That lesson that Jason learned in Dragon is a very important plot point as is why YOU DON'T TOUCH THE CASE THAT MUST NOT BE TOUCHED!!! I have Outlaws who are tech/skill. I have Outlaws who are mystical. And I have one who is both. Jason and Steph learn from these people in Volume 1. They teach everything. That includes how to protect yourself in the unlikely event you pissed off an angry spirit. Deadman's introduction also gave me an interesting way to "cheat" with Jason's training. A major theme in stuff I've been reading lately is that the body remembers what the heart does not. There's a more mundane and realistic take on that where you train your body to react to situations. Muscle memory. All that. Yeah. I knew this going in but it was one of my experiments. I could have started with my issue 2 and everything would have been fine and dandy until my issue 0 which is the true origin story. Didn't want to. Wanted to try something out. Wanted to have that mystery there from the start as to why Jason then make you slowly feel for him and his partnerships to all these people and why he would go to such lengths to save them... I also wanted to try Steph's (and later, others) opening monologues which given your next section, you might hate. Onto Jason in particular... While my characters are not directly attached to Batman... They are, for the most part, traditional Ultimatizations. With that in mind... We always knew Jason was gonna die. And along that same lines, if someone ever figures out that meaning behind that unrevealed clue you'd know... Oh yeah, he's coming back. The question then becomes how. Those are two major points of his story in DC... And I got a crapton of ways to bring him back from the Court of Owls to whomever Sensei is tied to and the research that made many of the Outlaws nigh immortal as seen with Rich and Wildcat, to straight up occult, to other. So I might as well just kill him off at the start and be done with it then spend the first volume doing a Lost Days type thing with the Last Year Saga. I'm not confirming or denying that this is the last of Jason. I just advise to keep reading the blurbs. They reveal much about the story in the past (steph's comment about Mr. Kane = OH GOD, MY NOSE) and what happens in the future. Mercenaries? Now this is the point I've been wanting to reach because it is something I might be able to improve... I just need to know what you mean. Are you talking about things like Jason's explanation of Lunchmeet and Arnot's shivering about what Roland does to his brother or am I missing something? That will probably get to you. Unlike many on the board (excluding Miller who is going in an a majorly different direction from the looks of things) I'm the only writer that is continuing and referencing bits of the old story. Mark Desmond in Ultimate Spoilers is basically an Autistic Mad Scientist that Roland manipulates. He's also in the original comics a hulk-type Blockbuster that Roland manipulated. It's changed this time around but still, Roland does things to his brother that show he has absolutely no feelings of empathy and remorse which is something I establish that you need to rule the Haven. Hush/Tommy Elliot was also the Mayor of Haven back then. He's also something else but I'm not sure off the top of my head if I revealed it yet before the reboot. Then the largest Easter Egg, and really the only one that truly was an Easter Egg, is the fact I kept Jack Ryder as a DJ at some point in his life and mention that it gave him his start. MRP did a fantastic job in Ultimate Outsiders where Ryder was a 70s DJ. Given that my take on Ultimate Creeper has him as Ryan Seacrest, Stephen Colbert and thensome... It was a good way to show that this was a man of many faces and jobs. Given that I use true riddles and rhymes... I'm not sure if you're referring to that or my mystery elements that will start to slowly get revealed with my Curious Case arc and a minor crossover I'm trying to work out with your wife that will reveal hints as to true identities that I am not working at all to hide. We're just in the first arc and I can't flat out tell you who the Red Hood was or the Secret Ninja Assassin Stalker is just yet.
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Post by Stardrifter on May 4, 2013 11:29:28 GMT -5
So finished 3 and the Dragon issue. Things did pick up, so some of my problem may have been going right from 2 to 3. Still, I feel like its been rather drawn out in the main series.
I agree with Bob about the mysteries thing. As a reader, I often feel like there are things you're leaving out of something is missing. Backstory, explanations, descriptions, and the like. Obviously you're setting things up and building mystery, but when your narration is less passive and more in your characters heads, I feel like we should be told more than we are.
It's obvious you're really taking your time and putting effort into the series. And your work is always good. I like the characters and the world you're building. I like the one shots. Frankly I like the one shots more than the series proper itself. I think a bit more snappiness and some clearer narration would really make me enjoy the series more. Keep em coming.
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Post by The Wonderful Wachter on May 4, 2013 12:01:59 GMT -5
I love the One-Shots myself and am looking forward to more of them in the future. About the only thing I don't like about them is outside of Shot and Richard... I'm not sure who I have as members of the Fearsome Hand back during the 70s. Even though I'm dealing with longlived characters, there are two characters I'm not entirely comfortable being that old. And honestly, my favorite part of them is I get to go into more detail about the sidekick training in them than I can during the main series so those identities are relatively unimportant until the Outlaws truly come together. Thank you for going into detail about the mystery problems. I don't completely understand it just yet but I have a better feel for what may be wrong and I might be able to do better. Given that I have to change the order of Curious Case, it should handle the clearer narration and snappiness in the main series. It'll also add another question when I reveal an answer in the issue so the love/hate might end up balanced... But I swear to the Source that the clues are there if you know your characters and can make educated guesses as to how they'd be ultimatized. As an aside, the reason picked the Fearsome Hand of Four despite their similarities to other bad guy teams and having only an animated movie appearance is because... 1. The ones we saw in Under The Red Hood looked awesome and even if they're no longer part of my Spoils of War Spoilers arc, they're still pretty interesting in how you can use the "modern" incarnation to show the ways they've changed yet remained the same over the years as members come and go. 2. It was too much of a hassle to try to grab Sensei's Seven Men of Death at the time. 3. It's a lot easier to fill four/five spots than it is seven... Especially when you might have to go original characters filling the spots over the years.
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Post by The Wonderful Wachter on May 5, 2013 21:50:36 GMT -5
Quite a few updates to We Know Stuff today. I posted some pics on the bases I use for the character when I try to describe them in scene. The only one that is off is Young Richard since that's how he starts to look after Wildcat sinks his claws into him, not quite how he looks in Outlaws: Wildcat & Dragon since I mention he is very much cleanshavened and babyfaced with the eyes of a killer.
One day, I'll use a better system. Probably something between what I had for Spoilers and what Star currently uses.
Curious Case will have the last of this version of Jason's Redbird uniform. He'll be moving onto his late winter/early spring uniform for Fearsome.
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