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Post by The Wonderful Wachter on May 13, 2013 9:36:05 GMT -5
Ultimate 'Haven 4 (which sadly should have been a different issue but I had to adapt) is done and the scenes involving others have been sent out. It's pushing it at just under a 4000 words once everything extra is taken out. Lots of action. A little bit of football. And probably longer or just as long as its intended issue was meant to be.
In switching the order of events, had to make some sacrifices. Not even sure if this will remain a 3-Part arc now. Might get pushed up to four.
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Post by The Wonderful Wachter on May 18, 2013 6:00:39 GMT -5
Alrighty... If I still haven't got a response from one of the parties involved by the 20th, I'll be releasing the issue so that there is one more posted for the reviews by the 21st. Better to beg forgiveness.
Turns out I only reveal one more Outlaw in this issue which leaves the rest unrevealed until issue 5.
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Post by The Wonderful Wachter on May 20, 2013 7:33:38 GMT -5
And in the 11th hour, I got the approval finally.
Not much to say about the issue. Between this and GA 4, if you can't figure out who Red Hood is then I can't help you... And yes, he has tricks up he sleeve. That's thanks to you guys who provided input in his costume to make him the mad magician. It's a crossover with ex Machina and another series (Cluemaster's Hint: Hat). I'll admit to taking a cop out with the Ten of Hearts at least for this issue 'cause of length. If you want to know what she looks like before her next appearance where I'll have room to better describe her, check out Superstitious and Cowardly Lot.
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Post by adrini on May 21, 2013 22:34:48 GMT -5
Okay, I read the chapter and liked it but just got off a near 10 hour shift. I will post a full review when I am more then a step above a vegetable. In the mean time very well done.
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Post by liquidsword34 on May 22, 2013 19:23:54 GMT -5
Finally caught up. Good series, but I can't help but feel like you've thrown in too many characters too quickly and some of them feel like they aren't getting as much time in the spotlight as others. Maybe it's intentional. I also think the White Rabbit bits had Jason focusing waaay too much on her breasts etc. On the other hand, you write action very well, errors (Which still there) are kept to a minimum, the characters all feel unique and interesting, and crossovers with other series are always a good thing.
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Post by The Wonderful Wachter on May 22, 2013 21:26:14 GMT -5
I've given an approximately equal amount of time to all my stars that were put under heroes (at least by the time 4 was posted) who are heroes to start. Arthur, Jason, and Kate. Issue 2 had a high focus on Arthur and Jason. Issue 3 had a high dose of Jason and Kate with some Arthur mixed in. Issue 4 was mostly about the Guest Star experiencing 'Haven with some Jason cape moments thrown in for fun and Kate for purpose of setup. Steph, Beth, and Helena are very much peripheral characters at the moment though had I not had to change my order because of Batman (which means the next issue) you would have got the true introductions to Stephanie and Helena. They're not stars or heroes yet. They're built up over time with Helena and Beth just not showing up in the chapter after they're first introduced to the reader.
On the villains front. Mob ruled city. One foreboding scene introducing the Queen of Hearts (then the following issue has the Royal Flush Gang at play). One scene meant to set up corrupt cops plus introduce the second player in Haven (and in turn the big bad). Multiple scenes meant to set up all aspects of the Red Hood including the man he was, the man he is, and the show he puts on after coming out of retirement. The Villain of the Week: White Rabbit showed both sides of her in her arc.
For support. Dragon was established as Jason's guardian (with the added bonus of a backstory issue). Ted was established as the fun coach that makes him want to puke (with the added bonus of a backstory issue). Renee and Kate's relationship was the focus of two scenes in two issues. The Creeper was a background character in all of Issue 3 which is why the title was dedicated to him. He was always there in some form in every scene.
So compared to Spoilers where I was juggling 5+ main characters to start plus 2 recurring villains and each issue was 4500+ ... 'Haven has had a nice balance with slow and steady where characters will gradually come into their own while the support stays in the background as they should and will have moments where they're required to shine or co-star such as Man-Bat will obviously play a large role in this current arc.
Short Version: Not seeing the complaint. Not every character introduced has to continue being seen consistently. 'Haven is an ensemble piece with the first Storyline of Last Saga focusing on Jason and his relationships to people as well as character pieces focusing on the perception of the city itself. Steph will have her time to shine instead of stalk/troll Jason, Beth will do more than just drink, and Helena first showed up in the last lines of issue 3 on a school day then the very next issue happened during a set amount of time on a non-school day in a non-setting jumping chapter a week or two later.
Yes. I COULD put more scenes and actions for said characters in but then that pushes the length past 4000 characters. Did the Superbowl really need Helena to show boring bits of her hanging out with her family or the same with Kate and Beth?
As for the breasts comment. *points at buck* I'll push the blame on him since he agreed it's a useful tool to establish the immaturity of a 13-15 year old male character. It was also a useful tool to solve the case. Erotically Dressed White Rabbit will show the beauty mark that's not normally seen on the more demure Jaina Hudson. And finally, it's very much a shounen element which is what Jason is with his unintentional harem of girls.
Seriously, folks, give me some nice, young ... I'm not going to finish that statement. I realized it sounds wrong.
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Post by Drake on May 23, 2013 9:29:39 GMT -5
Great issue as usual. I think I know who Red Hood is, but I'm not positive, so nice job on your and adrini's part. I've got to admit, Kate feels much more real and honest now that you've fleshed her out. My only real problem is that I hate waiting a month for the next issue! Great job, man! 9/10.
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Post by The Wonderful Wachter on May 23, 2013 10:08:16 GMT -5
Great issue as usual. I think I know who Red Hood is, but I'm not positive, so nice job on your and adrini's part. I've got to admit, Kate feels much more real and honest now that you've fleshed her out. My only real problem is that I hate waiting a month for the next issue! Great job, man! 9/10. Hey, this issue's been done since the 13th. It just took me awhile to make sure Hundred was portrayed correctly. And if not for the situation with Batman, you'd have had an entirely different issue 4 out (only the Kate scene would have stayed in except obviously modified) and issue 5 by now. So I just have to replot/rewrite the rest of the arc once I figure out the deal with Batman. And if you aren't 100% sure on Hood's identity, go check the Blockbuster file. It's got a nice, clever encryption that has been there from the start.
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Post by Stardrifter on May 27, 2013 12:56:11 GMT -5
Good issue. Some errors toward the beginning but otherwise well done. Well done use of a crossover. Not much else to say. Keep 'em coming.
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Post by adrini on Jun 1, 2013 23:30:37 GMT -5
I'm going to open this by saying I like all your work so I'm likely bias. I love the pace you keep, the area is going crazy and the non-stop hits keeping the characters moving really reflect that. Kate is just fun, very no nonsense. Jason is growing on me. He's really taking on a form and personality of his own. The game was awesome (again, bais, my team won) but I also like how you gave the teams a history. I didn't expect that, it was a very nice touch. The ending with Kate really helped her gel more as a character and a person, which she needed. Not that I don't like my female bad asses but it's a more balanced reminder in a way. So all in all very well done.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2013 0:00:26 GMT -5
Just caught up with this tonight, and I'm really enjoying your character work. Everyone has a distinct voice, and there are a lot of interesting dynamics at play.
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Post by The Wonderful Wachter on Jul 9, 2013 14:10:37 GMT -5
After a 40 Day wait, the next issue of 'Haven is nearly here. As a prelude to that, I shall respond to remarks I haven't responded to! I'm going to open this by saying I like all your work so I'm likely bias. I love the pace you keep, the area is going crazy and the non-stop hits keeping the characters moving really reflect that. Kate is just fun, very no nonsense. Jason is growing on me. He's really taking on a form and personality of his own. The game was awesome (again, bais, my team won) but I also like how you gave the teams a history. I didn't expect that, it was a very nice touch. The ending with Kate really helped her gel more as a character and a person, which she needed. Not that I don't like my female bad asses but it's a more balanced reminder in a way. So all in all very well done. It gets crazier and crazier. Tis a mad mad world. And I'm happy that you like both of my current stars (more on the way) because if there is one thing that has pissed me off with both this title and with Spoilers, it's the reaction "Well... I don't like the characters so I'm not gonna bother" when said reactions are based on the "canon" depictions of the characters and usually have very little to do with my take. It's the common reaction I get with Jason. And it is a horrible reason to not give a title a shot. (Honest Wachter: I've been guilty of it sometimes too... but I always had the premise to make me dislike a title too). It's such that I've honestly considered writing an insanely crappy Batman just because, by default, I know that it'll get more responses no matter the quality and really, it doesn't deserve any more response than 'tec or Green Lantern or Green Arrow. That's not gonna be the Batman or the Gotham you usually know in the first place so why are you treating it as such? And of course you like the final scene. ^_^ You're the one who had me post that instead of Red Hood going to town on March. Just caught up with this tonight, and I'm really enjoying your character work. Everyone has a distinct voice, and there are a lot of interesting dynamics at play. It's my Spoiler formula. Give the characters big personalities. Make them unique. Give them histories that you might not see on page such as Jason stealing from Mr. Kane. It's fun to do.
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Post by Stardrifter on Jul 12, 2013 23:21:30 GMT -5
Very well done. I enjoyed the stand off. I do think you're being a bit vague with some things and its a bit annoying. Like the Court and such. Otherwise a great little bit.
Side note, I know you haven't started Batman yet, but I'm not liking the prospect of there being Bat heroes before Batman. So I hope you reveal otherwise.
Keep em coming.
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Post by The Wonderful Wachter on Jul 13, 2013 1:40:09 GMT -5
Very well done. I enjoyed the stand off. I do think you're being a bit vague with some things and its a bit annoying. Like the Court and such. Otherwise a great little bit. Issue 5 reveals a bit more about them so that they're less of a mystery at least in terms of the last decade. But for the most part, they're behind the scenes during the Last Year until you get closer to Jason becoming Red X. I've tried not to paint the Outlaws as heroes though it has been said in other places. They're people who left the League of Assassins and had to do certain things to survive. Wingman and later Kate were the closest but her becoming a HERO was yet another relatively recent event. As for being before Batman... Kinda, kinda not. That'll be evident by my issue 4 of that.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2013 0:01:44 GMT -5
I've actually been wanting Kate to get a little more focus, so the Bat-Girl flashback was a very pleasant read.
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Post by DiscipleofBob on Jul 17, 2013 12:35:21 GMT -5
Finally caught up with this series.
I continue to enjoy this storyline very much. The mystery is intriguing and the fight scenes are awesome as ever. The side one-shots are fun reads as well.
There's very little to say on the pro side which hasn't been said already.
If I had any complaint, it would be that I still get lost as far as the overall plot and conspiracy and feel like I should know more than I do. We've got the Royal Flush Gang targeting politicians and politicians' relatives but we don't have much reason why.
I also feel like you should focus more on making the new characters you introduce stand out more. I don't have any specific examples unfortunately, but it feels like you're briefly dropping some names from your claims list but not always describing them or why the reader should care about them. You don't do it often though.
You also occasionally seem to introduce characters as if the reader already knows exactly who you're talking about. Then you don't really go into too much detail about who these characters are or why the reader should care, as if their reputation should precede itself. While this would work for someone like Batman, it really doesn't work for someone like Richard Dragon. (Thankfully, you've expanded on RD's character since he was first introduced).
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Post by The Wonderful Wachter on Jan 13, 2014 1:40:55 GMT -5
Bob told me not to create a new topic cause he don't like clutter...
;_;
So I just renamed this one.
---
After much delay and personal crap I don't want to get into, Haven 5. Rewritten and redesigned for an all new year. Clocks in around three thousand words which is always my favorite stopping point. Done in a burst. Honestly, don't care if there are bits that are rough around the edges.
I'm bursting with creative happiness that I managed to write more than two hundred words and it didn't feel like pulling teeth.
Extended recap of the last issue and I even included some of the story points Bob and Adrini came up with in my absence (some of it was good). Yes, yes... I'll probably hear no new answers but I'm rusty with my own answers. So... I DON'T REMEMBER THEM!
Did provide one big obvious clue to those of you who haven't figured out the obvious in the second scene.
Hint: Character Motivation.
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Post by Drake on Jan 13, 2014 22:23:58 GMT -5
So glad to see this series back!
It was a good issue, and Jason was fantastically written as usual. Helena and Steph's rivalry thing seems cool, if a little cliche. Ironically the issue when Kate talks the least (as in not at all) is when I can feel her emotions and relate to her the most. The torture scene was violent, gruesome but also strong in that it got across Kate's desperation well. My only problem with that is that we've never met the kid and so we have no real reason beyond "he's family" for Kate to make such an effort for him.
Solid issue. I'm glad to see my favorite title back on the site! 8.25/10
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Post by The Wonderful Wachter on Jan 13, 2014 22:37:20 GMT -5
So glad to see this series back! It was a good issue, and Jason was fantastically written as usual. Helena and Steph's rivalry thing seems cool, if a little cliche. Original scene I wrote awhile back actually had Helena telling Jason how she knew of him because he was on the Bertinelli family's "radar" to recruit before he became a goody-good. Just wasn't working. So now it's cliche for just a little bit until Steph and Helena interact more. I also had horrible realization after I went to bed last night... That scene... I just wrote High School Musical in Haven. Had to cut the stuff with the kid. Not sure what I can or cannot do in Gotham right now. And I had a brainfart where I forgot I could rearrange him in captivity to be in this issue instead of the next. Valid point. Thank you.
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Post by jordan on Jan 14, 2014 0:25:44 GMT -5
We should really get together and have a pow-wow on Gotham and Haven soon, help work out our stories better. Also, if your story is set in 2012, it really won't affect my Batman much at all, if any.
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