Postcards from a dying world: Superman Discussion

[unchartedfan1]

Just thought I'd put this up while I had the idea for the title in my head. Don't forget to check out my solicitation.

[unchartedfan1]

Superman #1 is up.

[unchartedfan1]

I hope you all enjoy.

[liquidsword34]

I still feel the same way about the opening two scenes - Lois comes off as a bully. She spends those scenes insulting Cat for no reason (And Clark echoing her comments in his head makes it even worse, it just seems misogynistic as all hell) and throwing Clark off his chair on live TV. I'm not sure if it's intentional but I can't begin to care at all about her character if all she's going to do is bully Cat. I'm not thinking "I hope Lois Lane brings down that evil Lex Luthor", I'm thinking "I hope Lois Lane gets fired because she's unlikable".

The attempted rape scene just seemed...off. Without being "that guy", it was just uncomfortable to read. The guy didn't seem like a threatening villain, he just comes into the story and after one paragraph becomes post ID Crisis Dr Light.

There wasn't much else in the story, really. When Superman showed up it was quite good, although he came off rather weak, and Lex is quite menacing, but yeahm that's just my 2 cents.

[unchartedfan1]

My next issue is where we really start to dive into the action and the meat of the story. Hopefully you'll like it more then.

[Ultimate Silentking]

It was pretty good. I don't have much complaints except for one scene.

Oct 18, 2012 18:28:54 GMT -5 liquidsword34 said:

The attempted rape scene just seemed...off. Without being "that guy", it was just uncomfortable to read. The guy didn't seem like a threatening villain, he just comes into the story and after one paragraph becomes post ID Crisis Dr Light.

Yeah, that. Agree very much that it seemed very off and was uncomfortable as Hell to read. I ended up just skipping it. Oh, and Luthor actually didn't seemed as menacing as he should be, but I am gonna give it time before I pass the verdict on that. Also, I am cool with you making allusions to the fact you are working on Spider-Man at my site, but I seriously suggest you tone it down a bit. That last paragraph had Superman with more of a Peter Parker personality than his own. A Superman that cracks a joke, I am cool with. A Superman that jokes around all the time, not so much.

So, only real complaint is the rape scene. Any other complaint of mine can be notched up as it is just the first issue. 7.5/10

[Stardrifter]

My thoughts are already covered by everyone else. I'd just add that the tone of this issue would work great for a less serious character, but for Superman it just didn't work at all. SK mentioned you're writing Spider-Man somewhere else, and it clicked. This would have been a strong opening for a Spider-Man series. But for Superman it's just all wrong.

That said, I'll keep reading. Keep em coming.

[unchartedfan1]

When I wrote this I didn't have a Spider-Man feel to it. I'll have to work that out in future issues. I really didn't notice that though.

[randomfan]

Oct 18, 2012 18:28:54 GMT -5 liquidsword34 said:

I still feel the same way about the opening two scenes - Lois comes off as a bully. She spends those scenes insulting Cat for no reason (And Clark echoing her comments in his head makes it even worse, it just seems misogynistic as all hell) and throwing Clark off his chair on live TV. I'm not sure if it's intentional but I can't begin to care at all about her character if all she's going to do is bully Cat. I'm not thinking "I hope Lois Lane brings down that evil Lex Luthor", I'm thinking "I hope Lois Lane gets fired because she's unlikable.

The attempted rape scene just seemed...off. Without being "that guy", it was just uncomfortable to read. The guy didn't seem like a threatening villain, he just comes into the story and after one paragraph becomes post ID Crisis Dr Light.

I agree on both of these points, especially the rape scene as it really could have just been a regular mugging.

Lex didn't really come across as a villian in this issue, it may have been intentional but all he did was threaten to sue the company for something illegal that they did and then apparently ripped the heart out of a monster out to destroy.

I agree with everyone else about Superman seeming more like Spider-man as well, Superman joking is fine, Superman joking in such a serious situation just doesn't seem like Supes to me.

[DiscipleofBob]

The Good: If this were a Spider-Man comic, you'd have the characters spot on. Your Clark Kent would make a very good Peter Parker, and I think a little more snarky Superman could actually work if you toned it down a bit. The Spider-Man parody quote at the end was a bit too much and fourth-wall breaking. You're also going to have to explain how Clark keeps his secret identity hidden in the near future, since his face is on television and pretty comparable to Superman. I think your version of Superman could work very well.

Lex Luthor is good so far. Not moustache-twirling evil, but also not obvious in his intentions. I'm assuming Lex going Temple of Doom on the monster will be explained later, but it does provide an interesting hook.

The Bad: Let's start with Lois Lane. You actually went a bit too much into detail describing her in the first paragraph IMO. Do we really need to know about her "sparkling white teeth" unless one of your sponsors was Colgate? Lois Lane does not come across as a sexy, sassy, tough-as-nails reporter. She comes across as "SLUT MAKE LOIS ANGRY! SLUT NOT LIKE LOIS WHEN ANGRY! LOIS SMASH!" For someone who's description reads like a Maxim model, she's certainly critical of people having sex, cutting down two people in the first chapter for apparently the crime of having active sex lives.

Speaking of which, stop using sexy as a descriptive adjective unless it's a character's speech or thought expressing it. "rather sexy looking blond model" could just be "blond model" and it says the exact same thing without sounding redundant. And apparently it's okay for news anchors to dress like strippers now? I don't see any realistic news network approving that.

Perry White does not make a good Jameson, trying to make Superman of all people out to be a villain.

The Ugly: The attempted rape scene was just bad. Even if you wanted to imply attempted rape, there was no reason it needed to get that far. It doesn't serve the plot any and just leaves your audience feeling a little ill.

Also, while the descriptions of the aliens are good, once again, you go way too far with eating children. This is a Superman story. These people are supposed to be saved. Showing a few casualties every now and then is realistic. Having a child be gruesomely eaten by an alien who screams about how he's going to eat your babies doesn't provide dramatic tension, it's just a a bit of pointless gore provided by a silly-sounding villain.

The "underwear" crack doesn't make sense coming from Superman himself. That's HIS chosen superhero uniform. If Superman himself thinks his costume is "underwear" why doesn't he wear something different?


There were also a few noticeable typos, but nothing I think couldn't be helped by a proofreader. Overall, I think you have a good premise for a unique Superman and an even more unique Superman story, but it feels very, VERY Spider-Man and that needs to be watched in the future. The stuff like rape and gore needs to be toned down, it really doesn't add anything and just turns off the reader.

[C_Miller]

Okay, echo a lot of the thoughts of the people here. I will say that I liked it for the most part. It's probably the best thing you've written, so I don't want you to think I'm coming off as too harsh.

I think you sacrifice some subtlety in order to establish your characters too quickly. In many ways you actually are getting the "show not tell" mentality that so many writers struggle with, but you're losing development in order to get the job done quickly. I get what you're trying to do with Lois, but where the tough as nails reporter trying to bring down the evil corporation should be someone I root for, here she just comes off as a negative character.

Personally, I don't like a wisecracking Superman. In my head, Superman should kind of be above it all, if you will. He has the weight of both Earth and Krypton on his shoulders, which weigh him down. However, I can't really find much fault in your decisions. There's nothing that's not "valid" about it.

But I do agree with everyone on the gore and rape. It's unnecessary and doesn't really add much to your story. As a writer, you always need to think about what services the story and if it doesn't, it needs to be chucked out onto the cutting room floor. I think it falls in with the subtlety issue from earlier. I get that you want to make the villains to be big bads, but people have done that for millions of years without including rape and gore.

But I did like it. With a few changes here and there in the future, this has the potential to be really fantastic.

[jackalope]

I liked it, it had a good pace and energy. I enjoyed the over-the-top type monsters, and the scene with Lex was cool. Don't mind the happy-go-lucky Superman. Look forward to seeing where you take this.

[unchartedfan1]

Oct 20, 2012 6:08:03 GMT -5 jackalope said:

I liked it, it had a good pace and energy. I enjoyed the over-the-top type monsters, and the scene with Lex was cool. Don't mind the happy-go-lucky Superman. Look forward to seeing where you take this.

WOO!

@everyone else: I hope my future issues alleviate any of your problems with Superman. I look forward to writing #2 and seeing what you guys say about it.

[heroic]

Just finished issue one and I agree with Miller in that it's the best work of yours I've read when it comes to things like descriptions etc.

The content of the issue I enjoyed mostly. When it comes to Lois I'm not too fussed about her whole bitchy attitude since it's only the first issue and it helped her stand out. Lex was fine as well.

The rape scene itself was fine but it felt kinda tacked on since we didn't see any follow up to it to get to know what the guy was all about and would've maybe worked better in the next issue. Also I don't mind Superman perhaps being more Spider-man like. The major issue I had was that he jokes about his costume and such just after the alien ate the baby and killed the mother, it makes him seem a bit non caring and or perhaps he's just an extremely light hearted guy

[froggy]

The Good-I dig the crazy monsters you had, and while superman came off a little too punny, I don't mind him having a sense of humor.He's kind of got that social crusader angle right now so I can see WHY perry white might not be a fan of him NOW, but that will change in the future

The Bad-the rape scene was kinda unnecessary IMO, and Lois seemed a bit confusing character wise

[Deleted]

I think the problem with the rape scene is that A) it's rushed and has no pay off B) it's not realistic, most rapists when confronted with a woman who'd scream or fight back would leg it. C) it's tonally dissonant and i think the most important thing really is that Rape is done to death in comics. Need something that'll shock a reader? Stick in some rape. Need someone with a troubled past? Raped. Need someone who will easily turn to violence? Rape.

It's just an over used trope and it's gone from being 'Oh, God. That's horrible. This should never happen.' to 'Oh, look. Another rape scene. Yawn.' I think Sword of Sorcerery blew up the internet in terms of having an unnecessary attempted rape scene in it.

Otherwise, a lot of what I have to say has already been said. Bit rushed, Lois was horrid and a confusing character - she attacks Cat for being sexualised, but she's wearing leggings. Legging's aren't traditionally the earmark of a slag. My Fiancee wears leggings, it normally means she's cold. If you meant stockings, well, that's sommat else entirely, ain't it? I find it a little odd that Cat's supposed to be the sexual woman in this, but Lois gets described as sexy and we get to know exactly what Lois wears, how she walks etc. I was expecting her cup size at any point as well.

Woman can be sexy without looking like a super model, or dressing like sex will become extinct if their midrift isn't showing. I think Lois, and Cat and basically every other female in the book could do with a solid personality before we start understanding the rhythm of their hips.

But anyway, there's a lot of potential buried under a couple of minor bits. It's just the minor bits were kind of distracting from the tone of the piece. I got no issue with a friendly neighbourhood Superman. This is an Ultimate re-imagining right? We can deviate rather violently from the tone or concept of the characters because this is a new dawn and a new world.

Will watch out for some more issues!

[Deleted]

Finally had a chance to read this. For the most part I am just going to say ditto to the comments of the others, but there were a few head-scratchers in here for me.

Just what does Lois do that would cause the paper to go bankrupt without her if Perry is saying a minute or two later she hasn't been working on real stories in nearly a year and that she needs to get over her vendetta and start doing real work? Most employees who haven't been pulling their weight for a year and giving the boss that kind of attitude would be terminated long before it got to the point Lois had in this issue.

What kind of tech does Lois have access to that she can plug a Flash drive into another reporter's laptop and disrupt the the broadcast of a network? Between Cat's on air f-bombs and Lois using tech that every terrorist cell in the world would love to have to spread their message, I would guess the FCC would be collecting a whole lot more money from the Planet than Lex did and that Lois would likely be up on federal charges for what she did to the broadcast.

If Clark and Cat have contracts with the Planet, and the Planet surreptitiously cut their salary 20%, it would also be facing breach of contract lawsuits. Maybe golden boy Clark wouldn't pursue it, but the way you portrayed Cat, she would definitely go for their throats in a lawsuit if they did that to her and her ambitions.

Overall, I will agree this is one of the better efforts I have read from you, but there are still some plot holes and logic gaps that should have been caught and fixed in a revision/edit. So a step in the right direction, and I hope to see more steps in that direction as I read further issues, but still some work to do.

I look forward to seeing what #2 has to bring.

-M

[unchartedfan1]

I like lawyers, maybe I'll take some of that to heart. All I really have to say to you mrp is that I hope one day you return to All-star.

[The Wonderful Wachter]

I'll echo what others have said and repeat that this is probably the best piece of writing I've seen from you. Most people have already covered what I'd normally say so I'll stick to the basics of what I'm looking for in every first issue...

You did a fantastic job of describing the females. Disturbingly so. The setting could use a little more work. Yet your largest failing is in describing everyone else. Emil and Perry I could maybe let you get away with, I shouldn't, but I could. Clark and Lex? Hell no. You're working under the assumption that we know who these people are and how they look. While given an idea of what Supes' costume looks like, you say nothing about Lex. I don't know which version we got. Bald Lex? Red Head Lex? Lex with locks of flowing golden hair? That was the simplest thing you could do and in my read through, I missed it if it was there.

[unchartedfan1]

It...was not there disappointingly enough.