jay
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Post by jay on Dec 1, 2012 20:55:01 GMT -5
Putting this up here since tonight/early tomorrow Issue #0 will go up. Issue #1 will also be going up sometime within the next few days if I don't get bogged down with more exam work haha.
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jay
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Post by jay on Dec 3, 2012 1:17:15 GMT -5
Posted. Gonna do a Rogues File at some point to help answer some questions that will probably come up. Feel free to feedback.
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Post by C_Miller on Dec 3, 2012 1:42:32 GMT -5
This was the title I was most excited for and of course it was the one that came in the midnight hour... haha.
It was very dense, which I like better than light, but I thought it was almost too dense, IMO. You took on an insurmountable task and introduced eight distinct major characters in one issue and while I think you largly succeeded, I had trouble wading through some parts of it due to keeping the characters straight, even though I'm very familiar with all of them.
That being said, I like some of your choices. I LOVE the idea of the Rogues being a comglomeration of corporate criminals. It's pretty original and while it inverts thier mission statement in the comics, I'm not sure it betrays the heart of the characters. So good job there.
And I like that it eventually linked back to The Flash at the end there. That was one thing I was worried about is that this wouldn't tie back into the character in the title. I very much look forward to what you do with the star of the book. Can't wait for more!
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jay
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Post by jay on Dec 3, 2012 2:01:37 GMT -5
The first issue really was even longer and more dense than this. So this was actually based on a opening cut scene of a previous robbery from The Rogues and I figured expanding this could give you a better idea of each of the characters before Flash starts that way there is a reference to the characters and everything.
I know one of the big chunks of it is the description of the costumes and tech, but I wanted to go ahead and get it out of the way that way I don't have a insane amount of writing to do in the later issues. That being said there is gonna be a origin story for each of them later, but I wanted to show just what Flash will be up against. To me Flash has always been the Spiderman of the DC Universe in the sense of he really does do great against multiple opponents.
The thing about the corporate criminals is I had to make it where they were able to get away with it kinda like Bruce Wayne in The Dark Knight Trilogy but to where they were actually inventing most of their gear and stealing stuff from here and there. The logic of their reasoning is going to make a lot more sense once you get to read their backstories and you see why they became super criminals.
I wanted to have something that tied to Barry other than the mention of his name in the issue so that he felt there and then I remembered I wanted to make his dad a cop and it just seemed to fit to also kinda show that there are people willing to stand up to this massive super group, but also that they aren't just gonna murder anyone who gets in their way.
My main concern is planting the seeds for these characters so they are very distinct at least to the point of making them seem unique and not just this character in a suit.
If you don't like a lot of reading your probably not gonna like this series cause each issue will have a lot going on. Just a heads up to everyone reading.
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Post by randomfan on Dec 3, 2012 5:31:07 GMT -5
I really liked this, especially that it focused on the rogues. Miller has a point about it occasionally being difficult to keep all of the rogues distinct but I think you managed to do it by the end of the issue.
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Post by liquidsword34 on Dec 3, 2012 20:19:19 GMT -5
Aside from a few proof reading errors, my only problem is how many characters were introduced. It was very very dense which made it a slog in places. Personally I'd have preferred if it started with four or so rogues and expanded in later issues. The concept of them being corporate criminals who also police other criminals is brilliant, it's both unique and plausible.
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Post by Stardrifter on Dec 4, 2012 21:54:36 GMT -5
I pretty much echo what's been said. Needs proofreading. Some big errors and run on sentences. Way too many characters to start.
I agree that the new take on the rogues is interesting. I do feel that, for your first issue, it should have had Barry in it somewhere. Most 0 issues that come out come out after the fact. To start with a 0 issue and have nothing to do with your main character just felt wrong.
But still liked it. Keep em coming.
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jay
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Post by jay on Dec 4, 2012 22:23:43 GMT -5
This issue was originally split from a very long issue one that is slowly turning into the first arc. This part was meant to be the spotlight for The Rogues since explaining them to the longest from what I was working on.
Barry's connection to them is going to be interesting but I guess I should have put a cut scene with him in there but I couldn't find a way to make it fit without it feeling like I crammed it in there just to cram it in there. This was kinda my interpretation of a Heist Film with these guys being super criminals it seemed to make sense. Hopefully it will work better with Issue 1. Keeping all the feedback in mind. Hopefully it'll be better next time.
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Post by buck on Dec 4, 2012 22:39:36 GMT -5
Read but don't really have anything to say that hasn't been said already.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2012 10:12:36 GMT -5
Having read the issue, I will echo some of the comments of the others. It felt more like a Rogues Special than a Flash issue, even a zero issue. It definitely needed a little more Flash presence, or at least Barry. Maybe interludes showing what Barry was doing (working in the lab, having dinner with Iris, etc.) while the Bridge Job was taking place. As a Flash zero issue, which should give us a sense of who the character is and what to expect form the protagonist, it failed. As a Rogues Special, it was brilliant.
The concept of turning villains into corporate entities is not new (Luthor's 80's makeover int he Post Crisis Superman relaunch comes to mind as the prime example of this in the DCU), but it was well done and well-conceived here. You fleshed out Snart very well and gave quick sketches of some of the others. While you did a good job of visually describing and differentiating the Rogues, their voices tended to blend together, which is why I suspect they tended to be difficult to differentiate between them during the planning meeting. They seemed to have similar diction, tone and rhythm to their dialogue so unless they were saying something character specific, it was difficult to keep straight who was speaking when. Dialogue back and forths are easy to track with two speakers, but with groups it is harder to do so without visuals and word balloons pointing to characters when their voices are indistinct, as there is usually no set order for them to speak in so the reader has little to gauge who is speaking by or who to expect to speak next.
However, there were some technical flaws in the issue. Proofreading was a big one. Sentence structure another. Part of what made it feel dense was not just the length and amount of content, but the sentences themselves. They lacked flow in places. With some sentences, it seemed like you changed your mind halfway through about hat you wanted the sentence to say, or how you wanted to say it, but never went back and fixed the beginning of the sentence to match the end, leaving a sentence that was unclear and difficult to digest or get past. Having to stop and reread a sentence to fathom what it is trying to say doesn't help the flow in a densely packed story. It may be clear in your head what you are trying to say, but it needs to be clear on the page for the reader to get that, and sometimes what was on the page wasn't clear for the reader. Other times it seemed you dropped words, which also hurts clarity.
Another issue, which is one that strikes close to home for me because I am guilty of it often as well, is repetitiveness of certain stock phrases. In this issue it was stopped on a dime. Cliched phrases like that need to be used sparingly, if at all, and if it appears multiple times in the same story it (apologies as I then use one of these cliched phrases) sticks out like a sore thumb.
Sometimes writers choose to use stock phrases in relationship to certain characters as a shortcut for descriptions or to serve the same purpose as musical cues in the soundtracks of movies and tv that play every time a character enters a scene or does something important. But when the phrase is used as a descriptor for the action, its reuse stands out and waters down the impact of the writing on the reader. It feels tired, like its been seen before, because it has.
So I look forward to further development of the Rogues, and to seeing just who or what the Flash is in your story. Hopefully #1 answers some of those questions and keeps things moving forward.
-M
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Post by Ultimate Silentking on Dec 17, 2012 21:58:27 GMT -5
Okay, kinda hard to review this since I have nothing new to add. So I will just say that MRP had a point. Although, I didn't catch the part where you were using cliched phrases repeatedly. 7.6/10 Because I still enjoyed it despite having it hard to follow sometimes. Especially enjoyed the part where you described each of the rouge's individually and your take on them.
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Post by DiscipleofBob on Dec 28, 2012 13:02:01 GMT -5
I really like the angle you're going with the villains. I'm getting almost a Robin Hood angle from them. I'm actually seeing them as the heroes right now.
Obviously it's impossible to judge your version of Flash since we haven't seen him yet, but I think it'll be interesting to see how the usual hero-villain dynamic will work with these kinds of villains once he arrives.
The only con I can see is that, despite a really good effort, there were so many characters in the same scene it was difficult to tell who was who and differentiate between them until they finally donned their costumes. Hopefully just the fact that they have their costumes now should mean that being less of a problem in the future.
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jay
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Post by jay on Jan 7, 2013 23:53:00 GMT -5
Issue #1 is up. It's shorter than originally intended and some of the scenes that were going to be in this one will show up in Issue #2, and hopefully it'll fix some of the problems, if there are any, with what may seem like missing scenes. Looked over it again today and I had to much fluff and one scene really wasn't working out right so hopefully they'll be fixed for the next issue. Feel free to feedback and I'll be catching back up on my feedbacks for you guys as well as soon as I can.
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Post by Drake on Jan 8, 2013 19:06:12 GMT -5
I enjoyed it. The story was great! But...your grammar needs some work. There's just a lot of grammar errors. I won't point out every type of error, but one in particular grabbed me. Commas. You need to use them. There's a lot of places where you should have used them and you didn't. One example of this is when a person is addressing another person, a comma goes before their name. "Barry, I brought pizza," Ralph said. That's an example.
Other than grammar, I thought the story was good. 7.5/10.
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Post by Stardrifter on Jan 8, 2013 20:55:54 GMT -5
I'll be honest, it's not griping me yet. It wasn't badly written, besides the errors, but the story is just...eh. I mean hell, after the 0 issue had no Barry in it, you then opened this issue with another scene having nothing to do with Barry. And what did have him wasn't super focused on him.
I think, in my not at all professional opinion, the downfall for me is the lack of focus. You're juggling so many characters that it doesn't feel like The Flash. It feels like A Bunch of People Who Aren't the Flash: Featuring the Flash.
Still, I'll try and keep an open mind. Keep em coming.
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Post by liquidsword34 on Jan 12, 2013 12:43:20 GMT -5
The grammar issues really do need work, because quite often it effects what's being said and makes the sentence not make any sense ie:
It can throw the reader off. While I agree that you're juggling a lot of characters, I quite like what you're doing with each of them, I just think a bit more focus would help. I really like the references to the universe as a whole with Superman and Sentinel, as well.
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Post by buck on Jan 30, 2013 12:37:32 GMT -5
The end of this issue has piqued my interest I will admit.
I'm enjoying the overall story but hoping that the next issue gives us Our first flash sighting.
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Post by DiscipleofBob on Feb 1, 2013 12:11:36 GMT -5
Nitpick: The so-called 'God particle' is a media term. Most serious scientists hate the term and how it's sensationalized by the mainstream media. The term 'God particle' comes from the Higgs Boson being referenced as the 'Goddamn particle' because of how difficult it was to find.
Honestly? A lot happened this issue, and I'm still on the fence about most of it plot-wise. Structure-wise, it was good. I think I have to reserve my judgment until next issue where we actually get to see the Flash.
Personally, I think you missed an opportunity where instead of "lightning striking random chemicals" you could have the powers originate from the whole "large hadron collider/higgs boson particle."
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jay
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Post by jay on Feb 8, 2013 14:58:24 GMT -5
Issue 2 is up. And now I am going to respond to feedback. I am really sorry I hadn't gotten back to you guys before this.
Stardrifter- After reading what you put I did see what you were talking about and I tried to fix it this issue. A lot of Barry's past is gonna come out in this and the following issues if that helps. I'm going to be focusing more on him and what's going on with him more.
Drake and Liquid- I spent a lot more time editing and hopefully I caught more of the errors. My grammar in real life is atrocious at best so when I'm writing editing is the biggest problem I have. Hope this one is more readable. I'm doing my best to make this a shared universe as much as possible and with Barry needing to be a "metagenetics theorist" it would make sense for him to have studied a lot of the current and former superheroes. He's a bit of a fanboy that way haha.
Buck- I hope I delivered haha.
Bob- I feel the same way you do, but I was thinking of the casual reader who has no background in science like I, and I assume, you do as well. The higgs boson particles will come into play later, but I can't say anymore without exposing some plot points. The chemical bath will also be explained later with who shot Barry Allen.
Hope this helped answer your insights and as always thank you for giving me the feedback. Gonna start hitting up everyone elses today to haha.
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Post by Drake on Feb 8, 2013 18:07:57 GMT -5
This is a much better issue, at least grammar wise. Your grammar still isn't very good, but it has improved. I think, story-wise, I enjoyed last issue more, but this issue was exciting. Its real strong point was the interesting twist you've made to the Speed Force. It just worked, and was different, so I enjoyed it. 7.75/10. I think the next will break 8.
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