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Post by Ryan on Apr 11, 2013 23:22:24 GMT -5
I completely agree with what Star said. I think the main point of it being ultimate is the fact that you can be different. Nothing to me seems any different from any other Bat story. I kinda need something to hook me. Eventually you will probably get there and I'll continue to read. So keep'em coming.
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Post by DiscipleofBob on Apr 12, 2013 13:20:13 GMT -5
I've been stalling on reviewing this series for a while, trying to get my thoughts in order on this.
First of all, about the people who are saying that your story has to be "different."
No it does not.
It doesn't have to be the same either, but it's your story. You can go as traditional or different as you want and it should not have any bearing on the quality of the story.
Frankly, I think that a "different" Batman would probably turn me off to the story more, just because it's Batman. There are already so many different variations on Batman, all that work, that I think trying to be different for the sake of different is a terrible plan, especially when the goal of this site is to form a cohesive DC universe.
Don't be pressured to change your plot because it's not "different" enough.
Especially when we're only on chapter 2 here.
That being said, there are a few things that irked me about the story so far. Keep in mind that, with the Batman title, you're probably going to be criticized the harshest just because of how big a title you're working with.
The Good: The Content itself, ignoring grammar and writing style, was actually pretty good. I think the Penguin and this organized crime plotline is perfect for starting out your Batman series because it provides an excellent opportunity to flesh out the character in his natural element. I had just finished a second playthrough of Arkham City before I read the first chapter, and you channelled sociopathic but savvy Penguin very well. Penguin can either be a joke, a gentleman criminal, or a truly ruthless character, and you've managed to channel the latter quite well. I'm actually excited to see how this plays out. I actually like the perspective shift to Batman for action sequences, and I think that could turn out really well, but... well, see below.
The Bad: As others have said, there were some grammar issues. Chapter 1 it didn't seem to be as noticeable, but in Chapter 2 there were several VERY noticeable errors including one piece of dialogue by Bullock that was left completely unfinished. A few misplaced punctuation marks is one thing and easy to ignore, but forgetting to finish sentences severely breaks immersion. This is just a guess, but it seems like the most egregious errors might occur during the editing process. Also, Bruce Wayne throwing himself into the spotlight with his speech seemed... off... for Bruce Wayne's usual public persona. It just seems like such a bold move would draw more attention to him, attention that he'd want to avoid because of his double life and all.
The Ugly: I was trying to figure out what bugged me about the writing style. It wasn't the grammar. That was passable. In fact it was too passable. Your writing style for several scenes, especially major fight scenes, feels so clinical. It doesn't read like a dynamic fight scene, it reads like Bruce is reading his stage directions from the script of his next Adam West fight scene. What should be an action-packed scene just feels dull, and it's especially noticeable when the perspective shifts to Batman's I think this is one of those things that might work better in an actual comic, but doesn't translate well to just written word. Also, the yellow is terrible. I'd personally recommend just keeping it all the same color text.
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Post by Stardrifter on Apr 12, 2013 13:47:56 GMT -5
I'd like to clarify, my comments about difference is my personal preference and not me trying to say its necessary. But I feel like, if you aren't going to put your own personal stamp on it, what's the point?
Which isn't to say you have to make the changes drastic. I'm not saying to make Batman a cyborg or have Alfred be Robin. But I'd like to see some original spins on some things that I can't get in other mediums.
And again, this is what I want to see. I'm only one reader.
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Post by DiscipleofBob on Apr 12, 2013 13:55:55 GMT -5
I'd like to clarify, my comments about difference is my personal preference and not me trying to say its necessary. But I feel like, if you aren't going to put your own personal stamp on it, what's the point? Which isn't to say you have to make the changes drastic. I'm not saying to make Batman a cyborg or have Alfred be Robin. But I'd like to see some original spins on some things that I can't get in other mediums. And again, this is what I want to see. I'm only one reader. Everyone's entitled to their own opnions. None is more valid than the other. Though now that you mention it, I'd love to see Alfred as Robin. ;D "Holy teatime, Mr. Wayne! I do believe those ruffians have scuffed the fresh paint job on the Batmobile. I shall take care of it momentarily, sir."
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Post by buck on Apr 12, 2013 13:56:58 GMT -5
Thanks for the indepth reviews Star and DiscipleofBob. (thanks to everyone else as well)
Just to address a couple of your points.
I agree completely with the notion that a Batman removed too far from the center doesn't help a cohesive universe. That being said the differences in my take are more focused on the supporting cast and villains. Which really won't be touched on until after the first arc.
Thanks for the Penguin compliment.
I'm amazed I didn't finish that line of dialogue for Bullock. It was a spot where I didn't like the original bit removed the phrasing and then forgot to go back and finish the revision.
As for Bruce throwing himself into the spotlight. That's actually something that's been pretty prevalent in the comics under Morrison and Snyder which I like more then the aloof playboy. It's something I'll address later, but just to answer briefly; Bruce has realized Batman can't punch everything. Poverty, unemployment and lack of education are something beyond the scope of Batman. Which means to really safe Gotham he has to embrace both Bruce Wayne and Batman.
As for the action scenes, I've had the same nagging feeling. I've been thinking it was something I could work through. Unfortunately, it's not and it has been canned in the most reason issue. And I definitely agree switching midstream doesn't work. So if I do bring it back I'll definitely be retooling it.
Again appreciate the feedback. Just want to let you guys know that I am listening to what you have to say and hopefully I'll be addressing some of your issues in the coming months.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2013 4:14:00 GMT -5
As DicipleofBob said, the style here feels very clinical. There's very little flourish to it to give it any dynamic reading, it works and it does give a clear story, but it kind of feels a little bit like cliff notes, if you get me? Almost like you're keeping the reader at a distance.
There are a lot of characters introduced here, and yeah, most of us are familiar with these guys, but we don't know what any of them look like. Harvey Bullock is a drunk. I know he's fat and he's kind of surly and wears clothes that went out of fashion in the early 70s but do new readers know that?
As Bob said, there's nothing inherently wrong with the writing style. It tells the story clearly. It jumps about a bit but we're never not sure where we are. It just seems very stiff. This happens. Then that happens. Now we're in a different scene. It's not terribly engaging, in that respect.
I have a suggestion, you might not like it, but I'm offering it - You could write the entire thing from Batman's POV. It's clearly something you like doing, and I think it would give that clinical feeling a bit more...oumph. You could also use different personality traits to delineate between Batman and Bruce.
Anyway, it's only a suggestion, so you can ignore that, but as it's been said. Good issue, but, feels a bit...clinical.
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Post by The Wonderful Wachter on Apr 23, 2013 7:47:58 GMT -5
In his defense of the Bullock scene, it was something I was going to rewrite a bit for him but for reasons that I have to assume involve the claiming of Hawkman, he rushed to post before I could get back to him.
And for anyone claiming that it doesn't have his own stamp or it's not different... I will second his statement towards the influence will be reflected in his support and antagonists as opposed to Bruce himself. You can already see it, the glimmers, with Penguin and Bane if you pay attention. Not every story has to start with a bang and as the TDK trilogy showed... sometimes it's good to take Batman slow.*
*This is coming from a man that's not a fan of the trilogy but acknowledges that people are and that it is a good story.
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