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Post by adrini on May 31, 2015 23:17:58 GMT -5
It's fake, just seems fitting.
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Post by thetrueelec on May 31, 2015 23:39:59 GMT -5
Yeah almost all T.V. is fake, I've never worked out why wrestling is the one thing that people feel the need to point that out.
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Post by adrini on Jun 1, 2015 0:31:41 GMT -5
I used to be real. It's easy to forget but boxing/wrestling was the football of it's time for over 100 years in the US. It was a huge deal.
The rest of stuff was fake to start. So it's not as big a deal.
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Post by thetrueelec on Jun 1, 2015 0:47:29 GMT -5
Even so, it's been fake for ages, longer than most fans have been alive so it's still weird that it gets focused on, though it's worse when people try to use the fact it's fake to shame people for liking it.
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Post by adrini on Jun 1, 2015 1:00:10 GMT -5
Culture holds on, even when the memory of where is came from might not be remembered as much.
Plus it's a sport. And football is real. Baseball is real. Soccer is real.
No one is calling for death matches, that would be evil. But when it's empty, brainless, fake show - and not even pretending to be anything of substance- that contrast is even more stark.
Wrestling is an actual skill, one I'm told my great grandfather was good at I'm told. I'm not sure what to call what is has become.
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Post by thetrueelec on Jun 1, 2015 1:21:16 GMT -5
As a fan I'm going to have to disagree about being empty or brainless, Lucha Underground is a very serailsed show with a great almost grindhouse aesthetic, and NXT contains some of the best characters, both male and female, who could wrestle a great match in their sleep. Sure the main WWE programming isn't that great but there is a lot more than that.
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Post by adrini on Jun 1, 2015 1:42:01 GMT -5
That's the problem - characters. This is a sport, not a show. Or it was. It was about athleticism and skill. Aesthetics shouldn't enter into it as much if it wants to call any claim to that. I believe that there are some fighters who are skilled, really. But they're so utterly surrounded by flash bangs, bravado and bright flashing lights. How is anyone supposed to see it? And so much is fake on top of that. Any actual athletes have no real hope of being respected in that. Which isn't good, they work for that. They deserve to be taken seriously.
I guess fans get swept up in the drama - which we all know is something I'm no fan of in any realm. But it's also DRAMA. Drama is a distraction from actual events.
This can be a show, and this can be a sport. And there's no evil in either - people need to relax and if this lets them do that it is a good thing. But it can't be both.
Whatever it is it just needs to own it.
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Post by thetrueelec on Jun 1, 2015 3:56:33 GMT -5
I've never seen anyone say Wrestling is anything but a show for entertainment. I'd also disagree with athleticism no longer being a part, generally the most popular wrestlers are the ones who wrestle the best, and that requires being really athletic.
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Post by ericthepilot on Jun 1, 2015 9:00:33 GMT -5
I think to a large part, and perhaps even to the company's detriment, WWE HAS owned it - to the point where they no longer actively promote themselves as a wrestling promotion, but rather as a hybrid they've labelled "Sports Entertainment". (There's actually quite a hilarious exchange between a reporter and a representative with WWE who got annoyed at the reporter for using the term "wrestling" in a headline - to the point where they had an article taken down rather than leave it up with "wrestling" in there.)
It might not turn your thoughts around, but Max Landis just did this great video called "Wrestling Isn't Wrestling" that shows exactly where I think thetrueelec and I are coming from in terms of love for wrestling as entertainment.
Though I admit, after watching poor Owen Hart plunge to his death, I lost the ability to call wrestling "fake". Staged, predetermined, sure, but never fake.
BUT, so as not to completely derail this into a referendum on wrestling, I should add that Steven Amell has since responded via Twitter to announce:
"Lots of rumors circulating that I'm fighting @stardustwwe at Summerslam. Not true. Cody wants no piece of me."
Some are taking this to mean that this was just a rumor, but it seems more likely to me, especially by invoking "Cody" - he's continuing the storyline and it's as much a confirmation as we're likely to get until the storyline itself is ready to get kicked up to the next level.
I see no actual benefit to either Stardust or Amell from this, but it's not the first time Vince grabbed for a celebrity pop and since it doesn't look like he's getting The Rock until Mania, this might be the best he can manage.
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Post by thetrueelec on Jun 1, 2015 18:19:53 GMT -5
Firstly Wrestling Isn't Wrestling is amazing, I rewatched that basically straight after seeing it, and I almost never rewatch stuff. Secondly Chris Sims actually did an article about the rumour where he pointed out why The Arrow beating Stardust works for Stardust's character. comicsalliance.com/arrow-stephen-amell-wwe-stardust-feud/
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Post by ericthepilot on Jun 2, 2015 8:56:20 GMT -5
That's certainly an interesting take.
I'm not sure that I agree though - if we're making the argument that Stardust is playing a comic villain that's self aware enough to know that villains lose... we're coming pretty close to jobber territory, and how many great characters has WWE ruined by essentially turning them into jobbers (Zack Ryder, Curtis Axel, whatever Mandow is going by this week, Adam Rose and the list goes on). That's a pretty far fall for a guy who had a pretty high profile match at Mania.
I also wonder where you go from a loss to Arrow. He's now a supervillain that's already jobbed to a non-wrestler... and has no comic book heroes to battle (Hurricane is with TNA, if they could bring him back in after the Arrow program, I'd certainly rethink this).
I just fear that the only end for Stardust is the occasional midcard match on Superstars or Main Event.
And looking at it from Arrow's side - if you bring him in as Green Arrow, it's going to be tricky to promote the Arrow show in kayfabe, which would be the only reason DC would go along with it. The disconnect between "hey, watch this fictional show" and "this guy in the ring is real" would be a bit much for JR to get over, much less the clown trio commenting on RAW each week.
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Post by thetrueelec on Jun 2, 2015 9:31:26 GMT -5
Well his take is that this would be the end of Stardust and he'd go back to being Cody due to being beaten by Arrow, where he could be reinvented and have a shot at being the star he should be.
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Post by ericthepilot on Jun 2, 2015 12:05:37 GMT -5
That would be a shame, I would hope we'd at least get Stardust facing off against Bray Wyatt before he drops the Stardust gimmick. It's got limited appeal, but I don't see a need to rebrand him after only a few months (at least of this version of Stardust anyway).
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Post by cross on Jun 4, 2015 21:38:51 GMT -5
C-Can we have a wrestling thread?
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Post by thetrueelec on Jun 4, 2015 22:56:44 GMT -5
I don't see why not. If nobody's done it beforehand I'll put it up later after I have time to watch this weeks NXT.
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Post by thetrueelec on Jul 13, 2015 19:48:56 GMT -5
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Post by adrini on Jul 13, 2015 19:59:48 GMT -5
Everything sounds good. On paper it sounds great.
But it has passed seasons as well.
I still haven't seen the scream, but after that final, is there a point? It's little more then a live action fanfiction now. And shippers have less then 0 interest developing the competition. So she'll continue to be utterly and completely useless. Ergo there is no point in my even showing up.
But they fixed the name of the city, and I will grant credit where it is due. That was done.
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Post by thetrueelec on Jul 13, 2015 20:11:01 GMT -5
She seemed pretty useful in that final episode from what I remember, she was getting more useful as the season progessed and ended up being able to take down League members.
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Post by adrini on Jul 13, 2015 20:21:09 GMT -5
Three seasons, but we're finally past running into swing sets.
I would love, more then I know how to express, to see her come into her own. She's the reason I survived school with the relentless bullying and rock throwing I had to deal with. I honestly don't know what'd I'd be without her. I just don't have faith in the show to give two shits about her. She's an after thought. And she can't be an after thought to me. I owe her too much.
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Post by cross on Aug 12, 2015 18:33:06 GMT -5
Matt Ryan returns as John Constatine on an episode of Arrow this season! Consider my dick hard!
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