3rd Time's the Charm: Ultimate Grayson Discussion

[The Wonderful Wachter]

First issue is up rather quickly because I honestly didn't have to do too much work. I tried merging Damian and Ryan's ideas for a joint origin and Damian deserves credit for writing the first half of the issue since it is his prologue only modified to make certain moments more dramatic and to fit into my continuity.

Colored text represents voices Dick hears while reliving his past. See if you can figure out who all they are. I'd say only Gold and Gray should be difficult.

I'm going to try to have covers for each issue but if I don't, that one will be my default.

[Deleted]

Ok, let me just say this up front-the things that have always appealed tome about Dick as a character are his history as Robin and relationship with Bruce; his role in the Titans, and the nebulous triangle relationship with Dick being torn between Kori and Babs, so I have never really taken to Dick as a solo character but always preferred him as a foil for other characters or part of an ensemble cast.

Now here, he is a solo character and all the elements that appeal to me are missing. And you know what? I like it. A lot. Great first issue. It holds a lot of promise for interesting developments in the future and gave us a decent insight into Dick as a character. And I like Slade-again as a foil rather than a solo character, but I think he will work very well as a foil for Dick here.

I won't play the guessing game since I had the inside scoop who the colored voices were, and that is the one part I was leery about. I read the part of it in the preview without knowing and the whole piece with knowing, and while it wasn't that big a deal, it did help me (and I stress me as a reader here) build interest knowing who the voices belonged to. I am not sure how other readers will react, as I still liked it when reading the preview and not knowing, but my preference was to know. But then we've established I am a greedy reader and I want it all from the writer.

Overall though great job.

-M

[oberonfrost]

Overall man, a very good start. I'm definitely gonna be keeping an eye on this. I love Dick Grayson, and unlike mrp, I like him as far away from Batman and all that malarkey (except Barbara) as he can get.

My one negative is the colored text. And I know you aren't the only one who does it. So, promise, I'm not picking on you for it. But, I HATE/LOATHE colored text for dialogue, thoughts bubbles, memories, etc. When is the last time any of us picked up a book and every characters speech was represented in a different color? Never. There was other ways to convey things like that with the written word. It doesn't take me out of the story completely, but it kicks me about halfway out the door just seeing it.

Overall though, defintely gonna be onboard for this.

[The Wonderful Wachter]

Mar 6, 2012 14:38:50 GMT -5 oberonfrost said:

My one negative is the colored text. And I know you aren't the only one who does it. So, promise, I'm not picking on you for it. But, I HATE/LOATHE colored text for dialogue, thoughts bubbles, memories, etc. When is the last time any of us picked up a book and every characters speech was represented in a different color? Never. There was other ways to convey things like that with the written word. It doesn't take me out of the story completely, but it kicks me about halfway out the door just seeing it.

I know the reason I do it is to give the comic feel and in this issue, it was a cheap way of acknowledging that there are people talking about Dick while he's comatose.

But I have to point out that though books don't use different colors (we don't like to use color inc. It's expensive... haha) they do change font-styles for certain dialogue moments if the character deserves it and there are numerous books out there that switch to italics to dictate thoughts by switching to the first person. Sometimes entire section long scenes.

The use of colored text here is really no different than that use of italics. We simply have the option to change colors. It's a style of prose we can explore through this outlet while maintain the comic origins of the site.

Nevertheless, I understand you. We all have our pet peeves. After this issue, there will be a significantly reduced colored text in Grayson since well, he's awake and alive. Can't make the promises about Spoilers though. I'm reaching the point where I'll be testing out if that colored text will show which Spoiler is who will work.

[buck]

I understand the usage of the colored text, but it was bothersome in this issue for sure. THe issue was actually really good and I don't think the quality would've been effected if the colored text had been removed.

[oberonfrost]

What we're trying to say here, Watcher, is we love the teen girl drama you make. But we like it just as much in black and white as we do in technicolor. j/k

[Ryan]

I echo what everyone else said, I liked it, minus the colors but I'm glad that Richard is in good hands. (Came so close to typing Dick there, but decided that sounded bad.)

[The Wonderful Wachter]

If you didn't notice, I've added the covers up to issue 5. There are descriptions for 2 and 3 (really looking forward to 3 since I get to give some backstory for Jim Harper too). And today I posted the preview for #2.

It's something I'm trying out for Ultimate Grayson. Some of the covers will make sense, some will have scenes, and some just look fitting. Issue 2 should be up by Monday.

[The Wonderful Wachter]

And now Clipped Wings Pt2 is up. I'll be taking a break from Grayson now that I have my second issue away so you all should be able to catch up. Have one issue of BatB to do and then a handful of Spoilers to get them closer to the present.

Thanks to MRP for some editing and his suggestions. You have him to blame for the extra two pages to the issue. He wanted action so I gave it to him. Might not have been exactly what he wanted but it works for me.

Hope you enjoy.

And as you'll see... there is no colored text other than location.

[Deleted]

So even though I had read the draft while editing, the final version had a few pleasant surprises in it. Liked it overall a lot, and especially liked that I was surprised by a few moments even with having seen the issue in process.

I am starting to get hooked...who was that that attacked Dick in the studio and how did he know Dick? What's Slade's agenda? Who's Slade working for now? Lots of questions I want ot find out the answers for and that is always a good thing because that's why I read comic stories.

-M

[superecwfan1]

I actually read this and well... nothing against the colored text ...but it really gets ...annoying. At 1st I was like...is this someone thinking ? Is this thoughts , then I realized , its people speaking in the background. But we don't see that. Then there is a lot of different colored texts later.

I can sense what you wanted to add mystery with the voices. But the text and all was confusing there.

Beyond the texts I liked it. The time jumps and all was handled good and I liked seeing Richard Dragon train Dick Grayson here. I also liked how he encounters Slade at the end. So I will keep reading...(will read #2 shortly) .

[Deleted]

Well, I'm not going to lie here - I don't read any of the Bat family titles in comics. I have no interest in them. I really dislike the character of Batman, and all relating characters because I find them frustrating in their abilities to just be brilliant at everything.

That said, I enjoyed this first issue a lot. It's a great origin issue, setting up the details surrounding the murder of his parents, the mystery and cementing him very firmly in the history of the world of the bat. I enjoyed the interplay between Gordon being a hard ass cop, but having this really obvious caring side (with the kids), and the relationship between Dragon (Nice addition) and Amy.

I realise that people complain about the different coloured text. I tried something, reasonably similar for Authority, and I have to say, I think you pulled it off a lot better than my paltry attempt!

Good issue. Looking forward to getting into Issue 2.

[superecwfan1]

#2 was a vastly better read than #1. I liked that the confusing texts was gone. In anyhow we get a better story and development of what makes this Dick Grayson . That he suffered some bad injury to his leg and is struggling to raise a teen daughter now. Which works good. I thought the fight scene was pretty cool and worked with what you put in. The scene with Slade at the end worked and has me interested.

In all #2 was a lot better to me than #1.

[oberonfrost]

Wheeeeee!

Glad you took our comments to heart about the rainbow of words.

This is a really different kinda Dick. I can't wait to see more of your Dick, Watcher.

[The Wonderful Wachter]

Apr 1, 2012 19:33:55 GMT -5 oberonfrost said:

Wheeeeee!

Glad you took our comments to heart about the rainbow of words.

This is a really different kinda Dick. I can't wait to see more of your Dick, Watcher.

That... is all kinds of wrong but thank you.

[oberonfrost]

Basically, this room is a room full of guys. Someone has to make the dick jokes. Might as well be me.

[The Wonderful Wachter]

Apr 1, 2012 19:42:37 GMT -5 oberonfrost said:

Basically, this room is a room full of guys. Someone has to make the dick jokes. Might as well be me.

You do have a disturbing point...

In rereading Issue 2, it makes me sad that I'll be taking a brief break for Deathstroke's story instead of giving you guys the return of the Second Coming of the Dragon VS another champion fighter we have on this site.

[jackalope]

Deathstroke/Dick joke? No, that's stepping over the line.

Just caught up on #1 and #2, both good. Like everyone, the colour texts were a bit hard to handle in the first one, but for me it was more just a hard thing to read against the black background. Took me a while to figure they were voices around him, but I thought it worked. Good way to sift through a few memories and set up an origin.

Second issue was really good too. I hope Dragon, the first, returns at some stage, he seems like a cool character. I have a feeling that the whole police vs vigilante thing will play out here, which I look forward to. I like the reference to Harper, I have a few in my up and coming issues- but far more vague. I like see these characters interknit together.

On your take on Grayson, how old is he- to tired to work it out- but he's at least 30 right? It's strange to see him in a world where he could possibly be older than Bruce himself (that is if Bats isn't keeping his vampire origins- I haven't read yet but will catch up soon). Anyway, it's certainly cool to see Dick as a Dad, and already a struggling ex cop; injured but trying to pull his life together. I look forward to seeing how he becomes the Nightwing we all love. Good work.

[The Wonderful Wachter]

He's in the 26-28 range which I think has him around the same age as Bruce if not a bit younger. He had Mari around 16/17 and gave up fighting when he was 18/19.

[Deleted]

Apr 2, 2012 23:42:38 GMT -5 The Wonderful Wachter said:

He's in the 26-28 range which I think has him around the same age as Bruce if not a bit younger. He had Mari around 16/17 and gave up fighting when he was 18/19.

IIRC off the top or my head, Bruce is 3 years older than Dick based on the Gotham timeline wachter and I worked out. I am too lazy to open up the file and check though...

-M