How Wild Can You Get?: Ultimate Grifter Discussion

[froggy]

"I'm the best there is at what I do, and what I do...is drink!"

on a serious note though, once the first issue comes out, we talk about it here, you guys hash out issues/ask questions/all that good stuff

[froggy]

Okay so first issue is out. Now I know it starts off with not that much action, and like the story is already in progress but it'll all come together as we get to part 3. I wanted to make the first issue kind of enticing so I set up the idea with the two Cole Cash's. Now he hasn't taken up the mask yet, but that's for good reason, and I wasn't really sure I could shoehorn it in and be cool about it. I feel like I introduced a good portion of the cast here but I'm open to any and all suggestions.

[liquidsword34]

One thing which kind of threw me off was the switching of tense. For example:

Nov 4, 2012 20:19:00 GMT -5 froggy said:

“They just keep saying I’m special and could be a weapon for them, but I’m just a girl, I barely know what’s going on!” she’d say

Is in the future tense. However most of the story is in past tense, and at a few points it switches to the present tense. The dialogue and description seems kind of flat, with only the bare bones. The actual ideas are there but it's difficult to get through what with the tense changes, lack of description and quite lacking dialogue.

[DiscipleofBob]

I think the major problem I'm having is that I'm not familiar with any of the characters, so I have no idea what's going on.

I think you switch to what might be a flashback at one point, but I'm not sure.

I've read it a few more times over, and I'm still not sure what's happening during about half the story.

Maybe if I were already familiar with canon versions of the characters I could be in a better position.

[froggy]

yeah about the characters. I didn't think anyone would really be familiar with them but the thing with the two coles will be explained, and stuff like Priscilla's freaky transformation too, along with the different colored speech

the tense thing i realized after writing it and gottapush it all into one zone, so thanks for that.

[Stardrifter]

1. The biggest issue to me is the dialogue. It was awful. Full of awkward exposition. People just dont talk like that. In the future you might do better to actually say the dialogue out loud to yourself and let it sink in.

2. Your descriptions were okay in some places, but in others felt very bare bones. Kinda like you were just writing a wiki summary. He went there. He did that. Then she did that.

Others have already mentioned the tenses and such. I hope this helps some. Keep em coming.

[Ultimate Silentking]

First off the basic idea is kind of cool. But as everyone said, the descriptions, dialogue, and formatting are bad. ...but for me it is so bad that it is good. Especially the dialogue. I am sure that I am in the minority that this has reach the "So bad it's good" territory, but that is my most honest opinion about the first issue. 7/10.

[Deleted]

Ok, so going out on a limb and going to say the first Cole Cash was some kind of shapeshifter, probably a Daemonite if my limited exposure to the Wildstorm U is accurate. The bit about Chang helped confirm it for me, but it really wouldn't have hurt to give the reader a little more of a clue what was going on.

Second, and this is something I have repeated to several writers on here often...

SHOW DON'T TELL

in particular the scene with Max Cash and Doran back at the station arguing-don't tell us they are arguing and what they are arguing about, show us the argument, the heated words, the shouting, use it to define their characters and build tension...i.e. the building blocks of good storytelling. Give us the scene don't summarize it. Let us pick up their attitudes and feelings from what they say and do, not from what the narrator tells us.

Overall, I think you have an interesting set up here, but the execution needs to be better.

-the action scenes read slow because of sentence structure and a lot of extra unneeded words making it drag instead of flying at a breakneck pace. It dilutes the impact of the action.

-the dialogue as has been mentioned is awkward and a bit confusing-the characters all have the same voice and you rarely indicate who is speaking, so it all blends together

-while there is a lot of exposition that could have been done in a more of a show type fashion than a tell, there were key pieces of info missing that would help tie it all together for the reader, almost as if you assumed the reader had a foundation of familiarity to work with, which is not always the case. It is ok to start in medias res, and fill in as you go along, but the reader needs all the pieces to understand what is happening in the parts you do include, and it is up to the writer to include them. It's a fine line, you don't want to write down to your audience, but you also don't want to assume any a priori knowledge, especially since this is an Ultimate universe where there is no guarantee any a priori knowledge is intact and correct with the reimagining.

So overall, I think the seeds are here for a hell of a ride, but the presentation needs a bit more editing and polishing.

-M

[unchartedfan1]

I'm not a fan of Grifter in general and I have to say this issue didn't exactly make me one. I'm still a little confused on what happened but overall, I think its got the right ideas behind it to be a phenomenal ride.

[Drake]

I finally got around to reading this, and I have to say that I agree with everything Star said. Tense issues, awkward dialogue, lack of description, etc. I know about the Wildstorm Universe; I know about Grifter. I understood the story but after re-reading it, it's completely understandable that someone who is new to the characters and ideas wouldn't get it. So explain it. But don't just flat out type it, SHOW IT. Like what mrp said. Use characters' dialogue, suspense, and other such literary tools to not only make the reader interested, but to help them understand what is going on.

The actual plot itself? It was good. I'll admit it's a little bland, simply because I've seen it so many times before. Even with Grifter. His New 52 comic is very similar to this story, just minus Priscilla and shape-changing (I think, I stopped reading after a few issues). But that doesn't mean the ideas aren't good, it's just not overly original. I hope there's some added twists in the future to further differentiate your story from those past.

Anyway, 6/10. That's a decent in my book, in case you're wondering. Keep working on it. This could end up being really awesome, 'specially since I love the character of Cole Cash!

[froggy]

Hey everybody, sorry for the absence. It's the start of spring semester and the school district I'm working at is still in the middle of a worker's strike so I've been busy with that and attending meetings. Thanks for the advice everyone, and I'm definitely going to make sure each issue progresses in score.

I'm going to check out what else was posted while I was gone, and I should be back like next week.

[Drake]

This was an improvement. There was much better grammar. But I do have to say something that is a very big deal: I couldn't finish it. It's not that it wasn't interesting, because it was. There are some serious tense issues! One second it would be in the future "Cole would say" and the next it would be past "Max stepped up." You need to decide which one you're going to go with. The tense errors are really holding this title back. I think it can become something great, but to do that you need to choose one tense and go with it. I'd go with past if I was you. Future just reads awkwardly. 6.25/10

[Ultimate Silentking]

I don't mean to alarm anyone, but where did Grifter go?