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Post by C_Miller on Sept 10, 2012 21:30:16 GMT -5
Hello all,
I'm going to assume that most of you have gotten my email, so I don't want to go too in-depth on the content from there. But essentially, due to lack of interest and activity on the site, we're going to try and give it a shot in the arm. That shot is taking the form of a soft reboot. A bunch of us have discussed this and have decided it's the best way to go because we've concluded that staying the course is not an option.
In October, we will be running the event that buck has been planning for months called Future Darkside. I will let Buck further explain exactly how it will go down, but essentially it takes place in an alternate future where Darkseid and his army has taken over the world. The only difference is that this is the actual future now. At the end of this event, continuity will "reset."
In November or so, all the current titles will end and everyone will get a chance to start over with new number ones (or zeroes or .5s or how every you want to start). What makes this different than a hard reboot is that should you choose, you will be able to retain the history of your title and continue your series from there if you choose. You could also start over should you choose on your title.
The history will be able to remain mostly intact, but you must claim all elements you want to remain intact, such as characters, groups, etc. If it refers to events from another title you must claim those elements for your title if they are available for them to remain intact. As an example, if MRP reclaims Books of Magic and I don't reclaim Starman, that will mean that he won't be able to refer to the time that Zatanna met Jack Knight at the funeral unless he claims Jack as part of Books. Also, if he doesn't reclaim Madame Xanadu, she will not be able to be referred to in terms of the history in Books of Magic.
One thing to note if you decide to relaunch a current series you are writing, at the relaunch every title is new, and will only be allowed the number of claims that a new title gets. If you had more characters claimed than this, you must choose which ones to retain up to the max allowed for a new title. All other characters would be available to be claimed by other writers during the relaunch.
Ideally, writers will claim new titles. They will have absolutely no obligation to continue on from the previous version of the title and I want to go out on a limb to say that they will be discouraged to do so. I know many writers will be uncomfortable if their stories are built off of, so I don't want to open that can of worms. If you want to use little elements or homages, feel free, but I'd ask that you go for something original if you do a new title. For example if you want Lex and Lois to be in a relationship or use Max Mercury as a God, go for it, but let your stories do something different.
The way the reclaiming process will work is a "draft system." I want everyone who will be interested in starting a new title to either PM me or better yet, post here. Then they will be entered into an internet randomizer where a random order will be produced. That will be the order that titles are claimed in. You will have twelve hours from the approval of the last title to claim yours. If you are late, you will be moved by down one. This isn't a perfect system, but I feel like it's the fairest way due to time zones and what not.
Another thing is that we are going to be changing the rules to address some major issues that have come up over the last year and a half.
I look forward to the future of this site and I hope you will all join us.
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Post by liquidsword34 on Sept 10, 2012 22:14:25 GMT -5
I'll claim a new title and drop my current two. Good to see the event going on.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2012 22:25:05 GMT -5
The die is cast or this is the sound of the other shoe dropping I guess.
I will be dropping all current titles and start fresh with something in November. I have a few ideas, but will see what's available whenever my turn comes up in the draft...
If anyone is interested, let me know and I can post what was coming up in Detective and Books of Magic as I did with Seven Soldiers....
-M
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Post by unchartedfan1 on Sept 10, 2012 22:29:50 GMT -5
I'm interested in hearing both and, because I don't have a title, am I allowed to put my name in?
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Post by C_Miller on Sept 10, 2012 22:31:43 GMT -5
Yes you are. Everyone is allowed to take place in the draft, but the people interested in continuing their titles are moved to the top. Even though I have two titles, because I will not be continuing either of them, we will be in the same place.
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Post by unchartedfan1 on Sept 10, 2012 22:32:46 GMT -5
Sounds cool. I'm excited to see where this is going.
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Post by C_Miller on Sept 10, 2012 22:35:10 GMT -5
Just to clear up any confusion. You will have to start with one title and then you can claim another as the updated rules will dictate. For all intents and purposes, we are pretending that we are starting over in November completely. Therefore even if you wrote a title and got it to a certain issue number, it will be as if your first issue in November is your first issue on the site.
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Post by unchartedfan1 on Sept 10, 2012 22:37:04 GMT -5
I just checked and I didn't get an email. Again, I'm not sure if this is related to the whole I'm not currently a writer thing or not, but still.
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Post by C_Miller on Sept 10, 2012 22:38:45 GMT -5
Yeah. I more or less only sent emails to currently active writers or people who were active writers in the past. It was just for writers really.
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Post by unchartedfan1 on Sept 10, 2012 22:39:37 GMT -5
Okay.
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Post by Ultimate Silentking on Sept 11, 2012 0:32:00 GMT -5
I will be keeping Suicide Squad. Although, I wonder if I can keep Action Comics as well since it is something both Buck and I were working on...
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Post by buck on Sept 11, 2012 0:33:26 GMT -5
I'll be dropping my titles and going forward with a new title.
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Post by Ultimate Silentking on Sept 11, 2012 0:37:19 GMT -5
I'm guessing that includes Action Comics. Which means I will have to drop that in favor of Suicide Squad. I am cool with that. Wait, should I send C_Miller my claim for the new Suicide Squad? After all, I will want to start over since I will have access to people I actually wanted like Clock King and Deadshot.
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Post by The Wonderful Wachter on Sept 11, 2012 0:47:28 GMT -5
Because I kept this site running for a good eight months, I feel it's best to let you guys know what's going on and what to expect from Chris. I'll still stay on and review and probably help continuity once I get my love for it back but for now... Chris has chased me off of the board. I kept this site running for over eight months. Ever since I became admin, I was the one who was doing almost every single write up you saw, who reviewed titles and pitched the best course of action. I sacrificed my time for my hobbies here to make sure things were going good and ready for the rest of you such as the Superman writeup and the latest batch of WildCATS and Shield. I kept the claims updated and even kept the Banner updated when I knew Chris was busy. The only break I ever had as an admin was around Chris's graduation because I practically ran this site by myself from March to mid-may. Chris got busy again and abandoned the site. Not letting the players or me know so that I can do my best for the both of us. It happens. I understand. I understood. He returned with the idea of a reboot. That's how he returns to the board and while I agree that something needed to be done (reboot or otherwise), Chris refused to work with me or answer my doubts/reservations. He's spent this whole process avoiding me and going off on his own... Including ignoring the other two admins being missing when in fact, he was in no way more active than them during the month of August. I can forgive him for ignoring them slightly since this needs/ed to be resolved quickly and they are currently AWOL completely. I can't forgive him for ignoring me. Nor failing to respond to me. Not when I've been the one who kept this board running and when any mistakes that Chris has learned from are likely from watching me. The following is to show you guys how this whole thing went down from the Admin side of things. For some reason, I'm said to be uncooperative and my attitude certainly doesn't help things but I was only trying to get Chris to respond and explain to me what he had in mind. In the end, he made every decision without me and couldn't wait on my input. His general unwillingness to work and reply to me has been the factor to keep me from wanting to come to this board, from checking it more than once a day. He couldn't even reply to my posting in the summit. I'm not going to let myself be painted as the badguy when I gave my all for this board and Chris comes waltzing back in lone gunman style. Start of the PMs Sept 1, 2012, 5:06pm C_MillerOkay... he's been gone since July 20th and he comes back with this? Alrighty. Lets go to my annoyed response. Sept 1, 2012, 8:33pm MeYes... I'm against it. I've never stated otherwise but I've been part of this board long enough to know that in the end, we reach some sort of compromise that is usually the best possible idea. I mostly wanted answers. Chris comes back after leaving me to hang for over a month by running the board when in the end he has the ultimate power to make decisions so I couldn't do squat. Sept 4, 2012, 2:15pm C_MillerA reply 3 days after I sent mine. He didn't answer or explain anything to me. My reply came within 4 hours. Sept 4, 2012, 6:09pm Me:I wanted answers. I wanted to know what he wanted to do. Some of you have seen my Cadmus pitch. You've also seen every other write up I've done for the board. I wanted some sort of explanation so I could start working off his idea. Sept 5, 2012, 2:05am MillerMiddle of the night. Yes it's a prompt reply but that's at 2 in the morning for me. No answers. He goes behind my back and calls the rest of the board together before we could together have a plan of action to bring to you guys. Sept 5, 2012, 6:04pm MeI ask about Uncharted because with a reboot maybe happening, I can't accept him and I was waiting on Miller in the first place to step up and start helping me with the board after some advice from MRP. That was the last PM from him. I go to the summit. Read it. Post my reply. Then I start a topic on the admin board calling him out. Mostly for Miller since you other two are currently MIA. Since you're not giving proper responses over PM, I'll post this here. I came up with an idea back in August on what we could potentially do to breath some life back into the board. Minor events to inspire board interconnectivity and give us some direction. Something that works into people's ideas they have now but helps the board as a whole. Something that doesn't fall apart if someone doesn't hit their role. You gave me a half assed response. I had an idea. You come back to the board. Do nothing. Talk about a reboot that you have no idea how to implement it. I don't support it since unlike you, I'm not being selfish and don't see it as a solution, only a bandaid if you don't do it right... Cause what's to stop us from pulling off the bandage and bleeding all over again this time next year? I still enjoy my stories. I had a plan that could help the board. Anything else... The abandoned titles, freeing up claims like WildCAT and Shield and others in-continuity titles, we could discuss about opening them up. Doing a soft reboot as is mentioned in the topic announcing WildCATs and Shield's opening. Guess what... I posted that weeks ago. And you didn't really respond to anything. Still, I was going to hear you out. I gave you very specific issues I had with your plan that wasn't even a plan let alone a solution. You respond that you understand my "reservations" and are very passionate about it. Didn't answer a damn thing. So I send you another PM trying to get you to respond. To show me your plan of action. That way we can be like Admins and see what is the best possible solution (usually a joining of our ideas). Your next response... A summit. That is beyond out of line, my friend. Now you got others on the reboot idea, thinking of a temporary fix. You made an admin problem public when you went to MRP and Buck. I go to them too, for them to check my ideas... Not to do the work for me. And I certainly don't act like it's an Admin decision. A week since the start of the month. A week where you went behind my back, and against my wishes for your plan of action by including others in the board before every properly responding to me. Funny thing is? Jack was someone I mentioned in my initial reply to you about likely not being A-Okay with your idea and oddly enough... He wasn't. So a week later, and you still don't have an answer. I can tell you right now that if you do what you want to do completely... I'm done with the board. It's far too stressful to be a hobby for me. I'm not going to restart my stories completely. I'm not going to hand them over. The most I'll do is be nice, drop Shadowpact and see what MRP wants to with Young Justice. I like my stories. I like my direction. I like what I'm doing and what I did... I won't tolerate them being wasted. So there. A restating of my initial response to your first PM... What can you do to convince me that its a good idea? What can you do to convince others that their stories should be forgotten if they remain with the board? What else do you have planned to help carry this out? How exactly can everything be started at the exact same moment? Do all supers decide today is the day to stop saving? What's an issue with a OML T(wo/hree) Month Later moment where we have things happening about the same time for no more confusion? If it's just you being selfish and trying to push for a full reboot... I got some news for you. You're past 12 issues of Flash. You're one issue away with JSA. You have the FLASH and other timey wimey characters. You can drop them at any time after hitting the "reset" button with Flash and then with whatever other characters we deem as Admin or Board to be free.... tadah... New history. You can pick whatever unclaimed characters or characters that you once had and start anew. That's what you alone can do and what I would have told you days ago had you properly come to me and told me some of your issues and gotten into your whole personal reasonings for wanting a reboot. Proper Plan of ActionHad this during the course of writing up my giant rant to you... See how easy it is if you would have simply tried talking days ago? Combination of World Event, Soft Reboot, and some sort Blah Blah Later. We already have Shield doing time crap. We have Flash, Booster, bucks' Zeta Warriors and whomever else wants to hit the restart capable of doing it for people. First Off: Time Shenagins: Allows those who want to and characters/titles abandoned the chance to start over and no longer have continuity. World Event: President Harper is shot... New continuity starts Blank Months Later... Everyone. Also allows avoidance of having to deal with the fallout of the rewrite. New Universe starts with a direction and purpose. Those who want to start over have the option... You, Buck, and Jack can all abandon your old titles by fitting with the rules of 12 issues. Doesn't alienate the people who don't want to start over. Doesn't cockblock those that do. At the end, I show him all it takes to write up plan. What I had been waiting a week on. Only for him to go behind my back and call me uncooperative. I tried. I wanted to work on the site reboot or otherwise. I direct your attention to "don't do it right." I may not like the idea but I'm comfortable enough to separate my opinion to do whatever it is we decided is best for the board. If we're being honest, I don't think I went behind your back. I went to the people that this idea would affect. Which are the writers. I brought you into it the exact same night I started talking to MRP and Buck. The only reason it got discussed about at all with them initially was because they came to me asking about the site's future. I understand it might feel that I went behind your back, but that thought never crossed my mind because I don't view the site in that way. I find the site to be an organic body of writers where the admins do their best to keep it on the straight and narrow. Our job is to give people boards, keep the claims list updated, semi-enforce deadlines and tell people when their titles overstep the bounds of reason. I don't want to decide things just as admins, which is why I created the summit and talked things out with the other writers. As far as I'm concerned the only thing that separates them from us is that we can create boards and ban people (which I will never do). Ultimately this decision comes from wanting to clean up the site and fix my mistakes. I have made a lot of mistakes and I have learned from them. I know that I can do this better if I started it now and the clean slate will help me do that. I will be the first to admit that the site got away from me. But that's what you get when you do something on a whim. I remember my first conversation with Darthphere after Jack and Jross had joined. We had six titles and I remember telling him that if we could get up to 12, I could safely say we made it. I was thinking small and I was far from ready to take on the challenges that I was put up against, especially when my co-admins kept disappearing. But where I would have been happy with 12 titles, we now have 27. I was simply not ready for that kind of commitment and I truly do thank you for helping me during that time. But I want to go back and be the best admin I can be, and it’s hard when I’m constantly seeing my mistakes staring at me in the face. It’s psychological, but that’s something I can’t run away from. The real kicker for me is that we have 27 titles and only 7 of those were updated in the month of August. Three of those titles were first issues by newbies, yours were your first issues in months. Going by that, Liquidsword is the only active writer on the site. So not only do I think I could be a better admin with a fresh start, I truly believe that the only way that we can bring excitement back to the site is to do something drastic. Frankly, staying the course is not an option. This has nothing to do with me wanting to write other things, but it’s a quest to re-create excitement. For me and for all. Because when only 7 titles are updated in a month, it shows that there is very little excitement. In the summit, that I really wish you were a part of, we discussed a number of different options prior to coming to a decision. We had the idea of an event, but we concluded that we tried Justice League at the height of our site’s activity, so why would it work now? Another idea I worked out was the hard reboot. While there were people who said they’d be onboard for a hard reboot, we eventually worked out a possible soft reboot. The soft reboot is going to give people the opportunity to kind of decide where they stand. Obviously, they will have to more or less start from square one with one title and 15-20 claims, they will be able to start kind of in the middle of their story, filling in the past with elements of their old story that could still have happened with their new set of claims. For example, let’s say you kept decided to keep going with Spoilers. You can start with the girls graduating High School with their origin story being more or less exactly the same minus references to the JSA or Jessie. The goal would be to be relatively vague with the past of the universe as to not step on other peoples toes. Another example. If you pick up Superman, you can still start off with the origin as you want to tell it. And all references to Superman in other titles have to go off this. So if I did JSA again, I couldn’t mention Jack Knight’s conversation with him because that never happened. This was a compromise between a total clean slate and staying the course, because staying the course is not an option and you’re right, a hard reboot would alienate too many people. There was also talk of using Future Darkside to act as a catalyst for these changes, but we haven’t come to a real conclusion there. This is still a work in progress and we’re still trying to hash out the details. I hope this gave you a little of what you were looking for and I hope you will become more receptive to change because I want you to be a part of the new site. I hope to hear from you soon. I'll take credit and say this is my bad. After putting up with the stress of this "hobby" for a week, I had to take a break and stayed away from the board for two days. He didn't wait on me before making this announcement. He didn't email me. He certainly didn't IM me which he knows is the easiest way to contact me at any time. Buck can testify my messenger is almost always on. He refused to answer my reservations throughout this whole process and claimed I was being uncooperative throughout the summit when in reality, I'm the only other person on this site that knows how much work goes into the board and how this probably could have been done quicker had he tried talking and responding to me. Miller never came to me as his supposed fellow admin and actively sought my opinion. He gave me an idea and did nothing to convince me that it was good or explain to me what he had in mind properly. He overstepped the admin bounds and went to you guys first after I critiqued him and made it come across as that's what is happening instead of having us both join as a united front. There's only two of us. It's not that hard to get a united front especially since while I know I did all hard work for the board, this was his baby to begin with. Blah blah... In conclusion, I sincerely hope that Miller has learned from his mistakes because he's gonna be the only official admin who makes board decisions. I'll remain on as the Ulti-Monitor and keeper new continuity and world for you guys cause I still love doing that and I enjoy DC. Maybe if my frustration over the way he treated me during this process and his most recent vanishing from the board because of lack of inspiration dies down, I'll claim something new. Until then. I'll be watching you.... </evil laugh>
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Post by Ultimate Silentking on Sept 11, 2012 1:37:06 GMT -5
Wow, and I thought I was lazy. (In regards to Miller)
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Post by C_Miller on Sept 11, 2012 1:44:52 GMT -5
I'm guessing that includes Action Comics. Which means I will have to drop that in favor of Suicide Squad. I am cool with that. Wait, should I send C_Miller my claim for the new Suicide Squad? After all, I will want to start over since I will have access to people I actually wanted like Clock King and Deadshot. All claims and what not will be processed in November. I'll set aside a date for the claims process to begin. It will not necessarily end on that day and there's a chance you won't go on that day due to the factor of time and giving each person up to 12 hours to post their claim.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2012 3:26:23 GMT -5
If you don't mind, I'd like to add my two pence. Obviously, I contributed very little towards the site - a few issues of an abandoned Authority series, which sadly, I could not continue due to my University commitments. I'd like to come back and write for the site, and I visit every day. The issue, really, is inactivity, and from there brings a whole load of problems.
I've been around the fanfic community for a little while, working on other sites. Inactivity is a problem that happens when you do this sort of thing as a hobby. Money motivate people, but when it's something you do for fun, that motivation can often be left behind. It ranges from real life problems, which nobody can help, to people claiming their 'muse' is gone (not something I subscribe to. If you want to write, write. Don't blame something insubstantial.)
In that time I've seen communities rise and fall because people do things like this. A soft reboot is a temporary solution for a systematic problem. People will flock in and look at the new options to write Superman/Batman etc. The activity will rise for a few months and then plummet back down. That's sadly what happens. When that happens what situation are we left with?
Do we do this again? Do we call it a day? Do we decide we'll go back to the original continuity to salvage lost stories? I don't want to sound super negative, but, this is more than likely just a temporary patch to the on-going problem.
At best, it's about managing the damage, keeping the people who write consistantly (sometimes that's patchy but that's life) and making sure you have a small community rather than no community.
Could it be possible to perhaps create a split down the board? Those who want to continue with the titles (Wacther, Jack etc) they have, they get a board that sits in current continuity. They can continue their stories and world building and then, nothing is wasted.
Meanwhile, a secondary board houses the new universe, where people can jump on their continuity and pick up whatever characters they want. This way, if say, someone new wanted to write Wonder Woman, they still could. She would then exist in both new and old continuities. It's the best of both worlds - it prevents the haemoraging of people who want to stay and write, and it allows new opportunities for those people who want to write a new universe.
I understand not wanting to stare at mistakes made, but the simple fact of life is, if you start again, you'll still make mistakes. They'll be different but you'll make them. We all do, but sometimes the best way to fix your mistakes, is to stare them in the face and deal with them as they arise. Covering them over isn't going to fix owt.
I was a manager for a roleplaying community for nigh on eight years. I made some terrible mistakes, in choosing other managers, in dealing with situations, in trying to fix those mistakes. Sometimes, you just have to say 'Well, cocked that up. Lets move on.' because when you're dealing with creativity, and people, you can't just start from scratch because not everyone wants that, and chances are, people don't forget anyways.
So, there's a potential out - divide up the board - new continuity and old. Best of both. Hovis sliced without crusts.
Cheers - Ed
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Post by C_Miller on Sept 11, 2012 6:27:58 GMT -5
I agree that this could be a temporary patch to an ongoing problem, but another one of the ideas of this re-shuffle is that we gain new writers who are excited to start up as we were when we all jumped on for the first time. Yes, older writers might fall away, but that's currently happening now without the reboot the only difference is that they're forced to pickup these characters with a year and a half of continuity. Not something that the average person wants to do, understandably. So in essence, this is more for new people than for the existing writers.
I'm going to be honest. A week or two ago, I was ready to walk away. I just had no interest and when I mentioned it to a few people we started talking and then we brought a few more people on and this was the result of the discussion. So, I mean, if this doesn't work, I'm very much okay with calling it a day. We need to get the excitement back and staying the course is not going to bring that back around.
You bring up an interesting point about splitting the board and that has a similar idea to a major discussion we had back in the early days of the site where we had an Ultimate Elseworlds board. Originally, it was set up to where anyone could have their own ongoing there rather than being part of the proper site. We then concluded that it would ruin the mission statement of the site, which was the shared universe. We also concluded that it could lead to comparisons that would hurt the strength of the site. Let's say someone was writing an excellent Batman run in the Elseworlds page, while TKJ's continued to get poor reviews, it would lead to a different kind of schism. And that's a problem that would happen here, especially when there's no clear "real universe." I feel this is a "live together or die alone" type deal, unfortunately.
And frankly, if there were still a few vets showing clear excitement and interest that would be one thing, but that's clearly not the case. As you can see in the recently updated board, we have had 7 updates since August 6, out of roughly 27 titles. Three of those are first issues by newbies and frankly, this new plan helps them out as it frees up claims that have been racked up in the year and a half before they joined. Wachter's updates are the first issues he's done in months. Only Liquidsword's issues are part of a longish run without being late. And he has shown interest with being on board. So, I'm not sure who the split if for. I mean I know who the split is for, but I guess, I'm trying to say that the interest level clearly isn't there either.
I do appreciate the suggestions though, but unfortunately, I see this as the only way.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2012 11:25:58 GMT -5
Hi, sorry to post again, I wrote a really nice long response to this at work, but as always with these things, the internet connection is so shocking it deleted it.
Anyway, onwards to my points -
I'm a member of a lot of fanfic sites, and there's often a lot of down time around this time of year. in fact, July-August-September are generally considered to be write off's mostly anyway. Because of the way it works, with different people from around the globe (Especially me in England) there's different reasons. You know all of this - So, what I am saying really is - Would it not be better to implement this in the New Year? There's only four months left of the year anyway - That way people could tie up their series with a satisfactory time frame, and probably stick around to write other series. It might go a long way towards creating some, not necessarily good will, but positive feelings if people can cap off their titles with an adequate amount of time - after all, as you say, there's nothing to lose is there? It'd just be another few months of low output instead of high output.
Most fanfic sites do start out that way, high output, consistently pushing out maybe ten maybe more titles a month and then it starts to slip off. The most I generally see now is about five or six, which is still a really good ratio of titles per month.
I see your point with regards to the Elseworlds thing, but perhaps it could be offered to people who really don't want to go into new continuity and continue their titles, like say, SHADE or perhaps Spoilers. They're not going to be directly competing with other titles in the new Universe, because that's their nature. Frankly, I'd rather read five SHADE books than a Batman book, but that's just me. It could mean that certain books, like SHADE/SPOILERS etc, which have different takes on characters can exist in an Elseworlds situation.
Finally, if you want to do a sort of cohesive universe type affair, maybe you could group titles together like DC. So rather than everyone working it out say, within your first six issues, you can only refer to continuity titles from the...Dark Branch, or the Heroes Branch, or the Bat Branch. Summat like that.
Anyway, just thoughts.
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Post by unchartedfan1 on Sept 11, 2012 17:00:15 GMT -5
I like the idea of grouping everything together.
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