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Post by Drake on Jul 1, 2015 11:43:11 GMT -5
Thanks!
Yeah, this was very much the "calm before the storm" issue. That's why it was so damn hard to write for me! And yeah, the characters are slowly being broken down so they can be built back up. However, that might not happen as quickly as Act 1. You've gotta remember this is a long-form, three act story we have planned, and this is only the first act.
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Post by Drake on Aug 17, 2015 15:07:35 GMT -5
Probably the longest issue yet. I hope this makes up for the wait.
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Post by ericthepilot on Aug 17, 2015 20:09:21 GMT -5
Man, have I been looking forward to this. Wall of text mode, activate...
I liked the idea of opening this up on a little bit of a lighter note. Which isn't to say that Gar and Cullen's storyline doesn't have weight, but their friendly banter despite the pretty heavy situation worked well to not only get people caught up quickly on what was going on, but eased the reader into the story as well. Things get even more explosive later, so having this certainly proved to be a big advantage in my eyes as they helped to keep things flowing nicely and provided some nice comic relief considering the heaviness of the rest of the Red Hood mess. You really cut loose with Gar here, and Nightjay shortly afterward in their battle, which I imagine must have been fun for a writer that's largely been kept to more realistic action. You get to get suitably comic book-y with his power set and you're able to handle that kind of action too, which is certainly not the kind of thing just anyone can do.
On a personal note, after spending the last four days with the nephews and being stuck absorbing another ten mind and soul crushing hours of Teen Titans Go! it was also nice to see a Gar Logan that's not just two steps above a hunk of wood in the brains department. So thank you for that.
Setting up the contrasts between the Red Hood gang and the Gotham heroes that inspired them was also really effective. You were able to again bring in a nice subtle reminder of the kinds of people they were and what their ultimate mission is for the newer readers, then advance the story, giving us the first of the BIG confrontations we've been waiting for as readers. The fight between Red Dart and Bane was epic, you were really able to craft the degree of initial cockiness, followed by the ultimate realization of being completely outmatched. That was really well handled, you didn't do anything to diminish Red Dart's character, and in the end she fought rather bravely, but she didn't stand a chance. We knew that going in, but jobbing her out did nothing to weaken the character we've followed all along, and it doesn't make the Hoods look foolish for following her either. That's a very difficult line to balance, keeping Bane looking absolutely dominant, but Red Dart coming out looking good all the same - but you handled it here. It also sets up the battle between Bane, Gar and Nightjay very nicely, with the pair with powers just able to eek out a win, since at least surviving against a behemoth like Bane is better than most of the Red Hoods can manage.
The big change of the issue is Harvey's, but I always judge these things by a simple rule. If I should know something is coming, and still find myself surprised by it happening RIGHT HERE... you've done well. And you've done well. I certainly had hoped he might last a little longer as he was, but even if I'd only read this issue, I'd have the faith to know that Harvey's in the right hands for an interesting story in his so-to-speak second act. Having read everything that lead up to this, I know only big things are on the horizon as he adds yet another kink in the perfect plans of others.
Harper gets some nice attention in this issue too, her story has always been, while not weak, the least engaging of all the plotlines you've been running with (which is not a knock, no matter how well crafted, one has to be a least favorite). But she really takes a big step here. It looks like it's a big step toward crazytown, but she's always teetered on the edge of that, and yet, despite everything - she still ultimately makes the right (or at least the noble) decision to go back for her brother after running. Not that I knock her for running, after all it is said that of all the 36 Strategems, "Run Away" is the most important.
A great thing about this issue was that you were able to set off some of the explosions that have been building up during your run, letting some of the pressure bout, but clearly you weren't done adding new mysteries, and the Birds seem to be in a doozy of one, bringing them back to their roots. Things are only going to get worse from here, and having new allies in the fight will only help. It seems that now virtually all the players are on the field, which can only mean even bigger things are coming.
Another really effective note is that you introduced us to John Smith, a name so completely obvious that the reader had to know it was an alias, and that the reveal would ultimately be forthcoming. It's certainly a surprising figure, but I liked how you very clearly left a reminder of who it was earlier in the issue, so that the reader can feel the full weight of the reveal's impact without you completely telegraphing it or making it too obvious.
All in all another incredible effort, I'm sold hook, line and sinker, so I certainly can't wait to see things go. Really, this is an epic, and it's coming along quite well. Stellar job!
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Post by Drake on Aug 17, 2015 20:50:35 GMT -5
That's a lot to respond to, but I'll try my best.
Yeah, I very purposely structured the issue so you're reacquainted with what's going on, but in a lighter fashion. Especially with all that was to come, I knew I needed a lighter moment. Thank God Adrini saw fit to put in some hope near the end of the issue as well with the arrival of the new allies (to avoid overt spoilers).
I, too, hate Teen Titans Go! and love Gar as a character so it's nice to get to a medium where I can vent my frustrations by writing a comic-accurate, but new take on the character. I'm glad I could help though.
Yeah, the Red Dart vs. Bane fight has been the hardest one to craft yet, as I really didn't want to stray too far into "massacre" or "close call" territory. Bane needed to win it handily, but Red Dart needed to put up a fight and appear moderately successful, at least at first. As for the powered kids vs. Bane, that might have been my favorite fight so far. You're absolutely right. Getting to play around with powers after so much 'human' fighting is a relief and a lot of fun!
Adrini's got plenty in store for Harvey.
I've always recognized Harper's the weakest link. It's part of why I developed this specific character arc for her. Not just going crazy, but beyond that, what comes next, etc. It's interesting in that, as you'll soon notice, the story--both tonally and plot-wise--will reflect Harper's journey.
This is definitely the first "BIG moment" but it's far from the best, craziest, or most important. This is only Act 1 in the story, after all. However, we are nearing this act's climax.
I'd originally planned for Smith to use another name, a more unique one, but I ultimately wanted to telegraph how fake it was so I went with "John Smith." Jock's got an interesting role to play in the story. I don't think you'll guess it, at all. The hints are there, though. That's all I'll say.
I'm glad you're enjoying it, as always! It's incredibly fun to write!! Thanks for reviewing!!
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Post by cross on Aug 17, 2015 22:46:58 GMT -5
I really only have two gripes with the current issue.
1. More Batman. 2. A bit too long.
Other than those, this issue was packed with answers, battles, mysteries, callbacks, universe crossovers, and fun characters. Ultimate Riddler continues to be one of my favorite re-imagined characters and his behind the scenes take on Superheroism is fun. I still am not a fan of the Red Hood storyline but damn that was a brutal battle. Deaths all around and the fun John Smith ending made me appreciate the build up. Beast boy was great in this issue and Nightjay brought a smile out of me with the Boy Wonders comment. I'm not sure how I feel about Star City entering the war but generally this book pays off in the long run so I trust you both.
Great issue per usual. Please bring in the Bat!
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Post by Drake on Aug 17, 2015 23:51:24 GMT -5
I might as well just tell you straight up that Batman won't appear for the next two issues. His shadow definitely looms over the title, but these few issues--and frankly the entirety of arc 1--aren't about him. Act 1 is Dick's and Babs' story, primarily, with all the awesome side plots. However, for Knights as a whole, Batman is the main character. You can expect him to take the lead in Act 2 and 3. But again, Knights is a Bat Family story. It unites two separate factions of heroes. It's an ensemble title with the most popular comic book character in America at the middle of it.
This issue was too long. I agree 100%.
Riddler will continue to play an interesting supporting role in the story. He's fun to write and he will play a larger role moving forward, particularly in Act 2.
Star City will pay off. Trust in Adrini and I. How the Arrow clan fits into everything and interacts with people they may not know well will be an interesting subplot in the story.
Just out of curiosity--as I'm unlikely to change my plans dramatically--what is it about the Red Hood plot that you don't like? I can certainly understand personal taste and that it probably is the weakest plot, but I'm genuinely curious. Yet, as Eric said, something has to be the weakest part.
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Post by thejellyfish on Aug 18, 2015 3:57:26 GMT -5
I'm still getting Batman Eternal vibes from this title. So many plots, involving so many characters. And the multiple writers thing. And for the most part, it's all good.
I like that Act One is about Dick and Babs, I've always liked them the most out of all the Batfam, separately and together (I am a romantic at heart though, so I really enjoy it when they team up together). Batman coming in during Act Two makes for gives him more resonance. Makes him feel larger. I mean he's the goddamn Batman.
It's good that you give him some time away from the title, so that his appearances have more meaning.
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Post by cross on Aug 18, 2015 6:25:08 GMT -5
I think the reason I don't like the red hood plot isn't because of your wwriting (your writing is awesome) it's that those characters are the ones that I'm the least familiar with.
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Post by Drake on Aug 18, 2015 11:13:42 GMT -5
OK. That's fair. I was just genuinely curious. It might be my least favorite subplot too, so I wondered why others felt the same way I did. Maybe it comes through in my writing.
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Post by ericthepilot on Aug 18, 2015 11:50:24 GMT -5
OK. That's fair. I was just genuinely curious. It might be my least favorite subplot too, so I wondered why others felt the same way I did. Maybe it comes through in my writing. I don't think it is that it shows so much as it's the least... personal. It's like trying to invest in a squad of Stormtroopers, it's hard to invest in anonymous cannon fodder. You've done a good job with Harper, but I think as readers going into a series called Ultimate Knights we knew from jump street this squad was going to be stomped into the ground by someone
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Post by Drake on Oct 15, 2015 11:12:23 GMT -5
9 is up.
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Post by thejellyfish on Oct 15, 2015 17:56:46 GMT -5
Boy, this issue certainly shook my foundations. That's actually just a half joke. Nothing really happened that would've shaken me to the core, but the 'Haven is pretty fucked. Good to see everyone working together and that the Birds are still out there. At a certain point it gets hard to tell who wrote what, I know Adrini is in charge of the Birds and Drake gets the Batfam. But, with the two sides interacting so much I actually lost track. Usually it's easy and I can tell the difference from reading due to X-Factor and Guardians/Spider-Man. But here it got hard, halfway through I couldn't tell who wrote what and I like that about this title. Keeps things kinda organized and gives everything a different and unique feel.
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Post by Drake on Oct 15, 2015 19:33:57 GMT -5
We're actually intermingling scenes, offering lines and ideas to one another, so it helps our two "sides" blend.
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Post by ericthepilot on Oct 25, 2015 20:52:11 GMT -5
Man, so glad to see this one back and so sorry to have waited this long to review it. Once again, you guys did a big job on a big issue. This one is definitely as big as promised, a seismic shift, not to make a pun, in the action and promises to be an equally exciting second phase of the storyline.
Nightwing has really become a favorite character for me in this series, he's really shining. Glad to see him back, and his absence should really give him a strong arc going forward. Harper's storyline as well is clearly going to some dark places. One only wonders how long until she does something she's truly going to regret, and just how bad that thing is. It's pretty gripping.
It was also good to see how you've been able to bring the Birds into the series without overshadowing the characters that have been there the whole time. It helps that they've always been on the periphery, but now that they're here, it's good to see that they're so able to compliment an already tight cast without their strong personalities overwhelming things or coming off as too cool for school, so to speak. They're going to be very welcome, I think.
Once again, you guys masterfully handle a massive cast and some really big doings. Definitely rivals anything DC is doing, or has done for quite a long time with these characters. Keep up the great work.
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Post by DiscipleofBob on Nov 2, 2015 14:15:07 GMT -5
I'm going to try and start catching up on my reading and reviewing over my lunch break because at least then I can stop feeling guilty about needing to write my own stuff whenever I can.
You both continue to do an amazing job with such a wide cast. My only personal problem is that I can never just sit down and read a chapter. Even with the preamble in this chapter, which definitely helps, I always find myself lost in the sea of plawt. I keep thinking I missed something important from last chapter or the chapter before that, and sometimes that's actually the case. The scenes jump around very quickly, so pretty much as soon as I get grounded in a scene with the Birds, for example, suddenly we're back on Harper or something else. I'm not sure how you could improve that though, as this chapter was where a lot of different characters finally met and some seemingly unrelated plots converged. Finally, I thought, this will be much easier to read now that the characters are converging into groups!
Then Batwing showed up.
In my head I heard an announcer call out, "Here Comes A New Challenger!" And by challenger I assume he meant subplot.
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Post by Drake on Dec 14, 2015 22:37:57 GMT -5
So, I have a major announcement that some of you may be upset about. Adrini and I have discussed it, and she's agreed to cut down Knights' run considerably.
I'm exhausted. The title is stressful, and it shouldn't be. There's just so much to manage, and so much I thought I could do, but can't. So, with that said, Knights definitely is NOT cancelled, but it isn't the enormous, three act epic I was planning. However, it will still very much be EPIC.
Ultimate Knights will last until issue #16, in which the epic--as I've coined it--'Haven Saga will end with its issue #50. Beginning with Wachter's 'Haven vol. 1, thru Ultimate Outlaws, Adrini's Birds of Prey, my 'Haven and Ultimate Outlaws vol. 2, and now Knights, the epic story of the Outlaws, the city of Blüdhaven, and one character in particular has been and will be told. In Knights #16, or as I'm putting it: 'Haven #50, the story will end, and both Batman and the 'Haven universe will be more open to new writers than ever. I will move on to something new, something less stressful.....something I haven't the faintest clue about, and that's exciting.
I apologize to the fans who wanted another 50 issues. I apologize for the slightly rushed pace of 13-16. It'll work, though. Trust me. Stay strong, True Believers, and expect Knights #10 soon!
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Post by ericthepilot on Dec 20, 2015 20:40:05 GMT -5
Disappointing to hear that, but if you're not having fun then it's absolutely not worth it. Hopefully you'll let us know what the big epic plan was as well, as I'm very curious.
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Post by Drake on Dec 20, 2015 21:08:42 GMT -5
Disappointing to hear that, but if you're not having fun then it's absolutely not worth it. Hopefully you'll let us know what the big epic plan was as well, as I'm very curious. Hey! It's great to have you back! Yeah, absolutely, I'll tell you guys about it, but after the story is over. After all, this is still going to include a lot of the same beats, just at an accelerated pace.
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Post by ericthepilot on Dec 20, 2015 21:12:40 GMT -5
Thanks. Things just got real crazy for awhile. Probably still be pretty spotty for the rest of December, but hopefully come January, things will calm down a bit and I'll be back to haunting this place like usual.
Glad to hear we'll be getting the full story in the end. I'm sure whatever you move onto will be just as epic.
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Post by Drake on Jan 16, 2016 22:41:35 GMT -5
It's been a while, but we're finally getting back on track with Knights. The end begins this issue....in 8000 words. It's long. Deal with it. Love it. Be ready for more.
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