Detective Comments: Ultimate Detective Comics Talk

[C_Miller]

I liked it.

I'm not sure it was my favorite issue of Batman from you. I don't know, every issue has had something really cool either happen or revealed that is kind of a game changer. This one more or less felt like it was just the pieces getting into place. Which I suppose isn't necessarily a bad thing, but that stuck out for me when reading this.

Also, I'm not sure that Batman having minors choose to join his fight is any better than the recruitment that he does in the main comics. I don't have a real problem with teen sidekicks, but I don't think this worked for me as justification.

I did generally like the issue though and I like the style. I think you have a strong handle on the mythos and the characters. Even though I had the problems, it was still a joy to read.

[liquidsword34]

I agree with that. At the end of the day he's taking minors up against murderers, terrorists and such. As a child Katana can't really make that decision. I'm not against Robin, but it kind of paints Batman in a weird light if he thinks it's wrong to ask her to be his side-kick but thinks if she asks it's OK.

I felt the Penguin bits were superior to the Batman sections personally. As an issue it was mostly getting things in place for the grand finale, which isn't a bad thing (it needs to be done) but due to this it wasn't the most exciting issue of Batman or anything.

[Stardrifter]

I think Robin only works AS Dick Grayson because there was a specific situation. Dick had his family killed like Bruce did, and Bruce wanted to make sure Dick was able to see justice done and not turn out like Bruce. It makes sense in that regard and how Dick, while a crime fighter, didn't turn out as brooding and obsessed as Bruce.

Teen sidekicks with super powers also works, as long as they're of a certain age. 16 or so. If they have super powers I can see taking them on to train and make sure they aren't hurt doing it.

It's stuff like the other Robins, Speedys, Spoiler, etc that are flat out wrong. Taking a teenage kid with no powers into crime fighting when they have no justifiable reason is wrong. But hey, comics!

Tangent aside now, I liked this issue as all the others. I agree Oswald's story was more compelling, though to be honest I could do without the al Ghul stuff so soon. I've never been a huge fan of them, but I concede they're a huge part of the Bat mythos. As such, I think it'd have been more epic to lead up to them over time.

Otherwise, good issue. Keep 'em coming.

[Deleted]

I will add my usual wait and see, but add this...#6 was written before 5 was posted (I wrote both issues over the weekend). One of the things I tried to do was create an origin for Tatsu as Katana that was closer to Grayson's-her father was killed, she was adopted by Wayne, learns of the Batman and eventually becomes his sidekick/partner. Lawton is the man who killed her father, and vengeance may be a motivation for her (we'll see in #6). As such Tatsu will have been Bruce's 3rd partner (the unnmaed female partner alluded to a few times, Tim Drake, and now Tatsu. Fourth if you count Alfred as his first partner. Tatus also has another family legacy to live up to in that of her birth father-something we got a glimpse of in Books of Magic #6, and gets expanded on a bit in Tec #6.

Trust me, I would have way preferred to have had carte blanche to develop Dick as Robin, but that was not an option, so I am using what was available. In the UDCU Grayson was never Robin, and Drake was the first. As for Bruce's attitude-his childhood ended when he was 8. He feels he was drafted into the war by the death of his parents (something explored a bit more in the next arc-The Birth of the Bat) and that he was never given a choice. He is a soldier, he understands war requires soldiers to fight it, but he doesn't want anyone to suffer what he did, he doesn't want to put people in positions where they feel they have no choice but to be a soldier in the war. He doesn't want to be the one taking their choice away. Is he right, God no, but he is damaged goods too and sometimes his judgment is seriously flawed. It's part of who he is. He's expected Tatsu would become part of the war form the moment he adopted her, but he was going to let her do it on her own terms, not his. The appearance of Lawton in Gotham just accelerated things.

-M

[Deleted]

Ultimate Tec 6 is up and with it Tec is officially in continuity and our second arc wraps up. Look forward to reactions as always.
-M

[liquidsword34]

I really liked it. The twist with the plane was given away, so the big reveal didn't hit as much. Not a massive negative and there wasn't really a way to do it without the reader at least being able to guess, but yeah, it is what it is. I like the depiction of Katana having her own motive and not just being a sort of tag-along.

[Stardrifter]

Good as always. I have to admit, while I love continuity, I'm not find of so much magic involved with Batman. I understand Katana brings that into his life, just personal preference.

The scene at the end was nice. Looking forward to your take. Keep em coming.

[Deleted]

Well now that the Shadowpact had delivered the sword they were keeping for the Yamashiro line, they will not likely appear in Bruce's life for a bit. He does have a friendship with Zatanna, so Zee may pop up from time to time (or Bruce in Zee's life) , but Zee is going to be busy for a while. So there won't be that kind of magical presence in Tec for a while, but....there is still one supernatural dangling chad that exists in the mythos and has been there since before I came on board here that remains to be dealt with. The first steps of dealing with that have been set in motion, but it wil be a little bit before it all comes to a head. You'll have to wait and see.

And as for the child of Bruce and Talia...there so much more there than has been seen yet, so again, wait and see...

-M

[buck]

Fantastic end to the arc everything is moving in an intriguing direction.

[superecwfan1]

I haven't finished the latest arc yet. I did read the 2 before. With the introduction of Mia and Tatsu and I liked the spots with them. I also loved the spots where we see Deadshot , Talia and the Penquin get him name. I really enjoyed that and how it was this meeting where he coined his name.
I like where its going .

[thattwoguy]

I finally finished reading up to the 6th issue. Really great stuff. I think the reimagining of Bruce as a soldier is pretty neat and him faking war injuries is a great way of distancing any suspicion of Bruce being Batman. The first couple issues serving to introduce this interpretation of Batman were really solid.

And this carries over into the time skip. Still great stuff. I'm loving your choice of villains. Instead of outright starting with the big names (like for instance, The Joker himself) I like how you start with Ra's and Penguin, the latter of which I feel is a fairly under appreciated villain. I'm probably not alone in saying that you write Penguin fairly well. I hope he shows up more in the issues to come. I thought the scene between him and Talia that shows the origin of his name was amazing. Also I really liked the recent twist where it showed he was behind his family's murder all along anyway by giving away the information that got them killed. Nice touch.

I nearly squealed in delight when Deadshot was introduced. I always really liked him and loved that he ended up being the assassin the characters were talking about.

The only criticism I have is Tatsu's introduction, really. There's something about the 5th issue that feels.. I don't know, rushed. She seemed to be kind of shoehorned in. The pacing of the story was fantastic until the point that she is introduced. I can't fully put my finger on it, but something really bugs me about it. That said, after this the pacing gets great again and your portrayal of her is really nice. I was a little disappointed at first that there would be no Robin, but I've come to like your portrayal of Katana. She's funny at times with her own kind of charm and you've created this kind of background to go along with her what with her father getting killed.

Another thing I want to point out is that the series seems low on action. However, this is actually a good thing in my eyes. I'm not against action, of course, and I'm sure there will be some really great actiony scenes to come. Plus some of the scenes you have written have some good action in them (I especially liked the scene involving the Cobblepot murders). But I love how you set up these issues with the plot unfolding between the introduced villains and the like. I also really love that we get to see some more of the actual "Detective" side of Batman, something that modern writers seem to have forgotten. The plot seems to take precedence over action and that is a very good thing in my eyes for this series.

All in all, great writing and use of DC characters. I can't wait to see more of it!

[Deleted]

Thanks for taking the time to comment. Feedback is one of the primary reasons I chose to write for this site (aside from a love of the DC pantheon). Writing can be such a solitary endeavor, that getting feedback and reactions helps make the process more enjoyable.

As a writer, you live inside your head at times, so having readers is a big deal. Having written non-fiction and gaming materials previously, finding people willing to read your stuff is at times difficult. In the town I live in, finding a writing circle is virtually impossible, so any feedback I get here is much appreciated.

As for the set up of Tec, part of it was figuring out how to fit things with what had already been established in the sandbox that is the UDCU here. I have said before, I would have preferred a Robin, but none was available when I took the title, so I made do. Tim Drake became available later and has been incorporated into the mythos I am building, but he will be features in Young Justice, not Tec moving forward-though I have some stories set in the lost years-the 5 year gap between issue 2 and 3 that he will feature prominently in, and he has a big role in issue #7.

Wachter actually suggested Katana as his sidekick/partner based on early promos of the new Beware the Batman animated coming to Cartoon Network next year. I was not familiar with the character, so I started reading some Outsiders, which started a snowball effect leading to the Outsiders title I write with Miller (though it is just a bit different than the DCU Outsiders). Finding my voice for Katana was tough, but I have liked the results so far-moving forward we'll see what happens.

As for Joker, I wanted to build slowly to him. I like the Joker but he is definitely overexposed at times. A Joker teaser has appeared, but there are 2 arcs set to appear before we get to the Joker arc, but that story will continue to build slowly. In my initial pitch I had 12 issues planned out, now I foresee finishing what I want to do with Batman in 24-30 issues, so I still have a ways to go, and hopefully the site will still be going strong when I am ready to wrap up.

-M

[thattwoguy]

Oh yeah I do remember hearing about Katana being featured in the upcoming Beware the Batman. And I do understand that how this site is structured it can make it hard to use certain characters you want. I didn't mean the absence of Robin was against your premise or writing ability by any means. It's just at first I was disappointed to see that you (at least initially) could not use Robin, but I found Katana to be a very interesting character in this series.

Like I said, you did a great job with the villains you used. I bet you could do a great Joker, but I'm glad you chose to do villains like Ra's, Talia, and Penguin first. It's kind of like the Nolan films how they shied from using Joker until the second film, unlike the Tim Burton films which outright started with the Joker. I did enjoy Burton's films, but it felt like he started to strong using such a well known, popular villain in the very first movie (and he gets killed in the end). Then again I'm sure that at the time they weren't sure if they would even be able to get sequels, which is so different nowadays where everyone assumes they'll get at least a trilogy out of their franchise.

Anyway, I can't wait to read more of it. I was actually thinking of reading that #0 chapter of Young Justice next. Didn't know until a little while ago that you were cowriting that series. I absolutely loved the Young Justice tv show so I can't wait to see what you guys will do with it.

Also I'm a little excited to hear that you will have a few issues taking place in the time skip between issues 2 and 3. While I'm interested to see where the overall story is moving forward, I think it'd be neat to see some stories during Batman's early years. Plus I already love what you did so far implementing Bruce's pre Batman flashbacks into the main story.

[The Wonderful Wachter]

And now I'm all caught up on 'tec.

Just so I could get it, I started the second arc all over again and think it is pretty strong on its own. I loved the flashback and Penguin sections but at first I was lukewarm to the whole Tatsu introduction. Might just be me (after spending the past two days working with you) but it reads like you have a difficult time finding the voice for younger characters. Your dialogue is usually great but when you try to change it up for a youthful perspective or a more diverse take such as a similar comment of mine in Outsiders, it reads wrong. Doesn't fit. And it falls into patterns.

Oh... While I endorse the whole "wait and see" approach. Issue 6 could have really used some closure on what happened with Alfred.

Seeeeee... I give constructive criticism. Mwhuhahaha.

Really though, Penguin was fantastic. So was Deadshot. People have already said that and you've replied so there's not much for me to add to it except I can't wait to see what the League does to Cobblepot when they find out he tried to rat them out.

[Ultimate Silentking]

Of what I read on this site so far (Which are Ultimate Flash, Ultimate Detective Comics, Ultimate Superman, and Ultimate Spoilers), this is my most favorite. To me, everything is sheer win. Can't wait for the next one.

[unchartedfan1]

Just from reading your Detective I can tell right off the bat (pun intended) you are a master at crafting stories.

I love Batman and the Mythos surrounding him. I've read literally thousands of Batman from Knightfall to RIP and everything in between.

This being Detective Comics and not Batman, I was expecting more...critical thinking? I was let down on that point because this felt more like Nolan and less like Loeb.

Your justification for youths joining in to Batman's crusade left something to be desired and, in all reality, it is in every way morally wrong...at least to me. It brings back memories of Seduction of the Innocent by Wertham (sp?).

But I definitely have to say my favorite thing about this series is that you have the Black Mask, the ORIGINAL Black Mask claimed, and I haven't seen him since, well, he was killed.

Overall I give this series a solid 7/10 and have very high expectations for it.