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Post by C_Miller on Jun 9, 2012 14:41:09 GMT -5
Well, you're clearly influenced by Morrison when it comes to Superman. I definitely got a Superman Beyond feeling from it. It's not what I would do if I were writing the Superman title, but I suppose it's a valid interpretation.
Like a Morrison comic, I can't really say too much now, since it has to unfold. Keep it up.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2012 15:09:51 GMT -5
Sigh. I am not quite sure how to frame my response to the content of the issue yet, so I am going to focus on the technical first.
Way too many proofreading and diction errors. From the aforementioned too/to errors to of/off errors which I can never be sure is a proofreading miss or a diction error on the author's part. Other diction issues surfaced as well-using 'leaves me to believe' when the idiom is 'leads me to believe' to the use of broad in Overman's message to refer to a woman. Now I might expect that particular slang to appear in an issue of Outsiders set in the 70's, but I don't think I have heard it used in common parlance in 20 years or so outside of a few old-timers whose speech pattern was molded in the 70's or earlier. Unless it was meant to reveal something about the Overman's character by his using it, then it was a very odd diction choice.
As for clarity issues-the opening sequence of the battle of the Supermen was not very clear-I think this is what led to many of the comments about people being confused or not getting it. And then Lana makes a random appearance in the crowd with no set up or consequence, and this makes her later appearance all the more mystifying, as the earlier cameo seems pointless. If it was meant to foreshadow the later appearance by her, it needed more detail, if it wasn't, it should have been cut as it added nothing to the story except confusion.
As for the content, well I want to leave it at I am not enjoying the path you are taking Clark down, but I can't. I try to be as honest in my criticism of the issues written here as I can-both good and bad. I give the same honesty as I want to be given in reviews of my stuff. I feel honest responses, even if negative, are the only way to get feedback that helps me grow as a writer. So, here goes...
Clark, as portrayed, is an unlikable character at the moment. Now whether you intend to take him through the valley of shadows and back into the light I don't know, but at this point I am left with a character as the protagonist that I am rooting against, and that's not what I want as a reader of a Superman title. It's personal preference for sure, but it is what it is.
The only other comment I have is this, and take it for what it its worth or ignore it-I know that the site currently is comprised of 99.9% males and all the current writers are male. I, for one would like to see the site expand and diversify in that regard but I am sure it is a pipe dream. That said, the tone, attitude towards, and portrayal of women in this issue is not female-reader friendly. It is, quite honestly, off-putting at best. I am not a prude, and it is not the inclusion of sex or sexual relationships, it is the way they are portrayed, and the women seem to be nothing but objects and the relationship scenes felt devoid of anything remotely romantic or even caring between the characters. For me, it was just ugly. A reunion between Clark and his high school sweetheart could have been sweet, romantic, even heroic based on the circumstances you framed it in. It wasn't. It was ugly and it revealed Clark to be ugly too. It's the main reason why I want to root against him. To me, he's despicable and if you are going for a fall before the rise, you have succeeded on the fall, but have you're work cut out for you on the rise and redemption part. There's a part of me that hopes this is the alternate world Superman we have been seeing and the "real" Clark/Superman will swoop in at some point, but I think that too is a personal pipe dream.
-M
PS After reading the issue, my wife said was she hopes you were inspired by Smallville as Clark seems like Clark Luthor from the alternate Smallville universe, or an even worse version of Clark on RED K, so if that's where you're going, then my criticism may be off-base, but what I gave you was a gut reaction.
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Post by elite147 on Jun 13, 2012 16:25:16 GMT -5
I appreciate your criticism, which your response is one of the ones I look forward to every week because you are so brutally honest. I'll put off adressing the rise/fall and your wanting to root against Supes till the end. Setting aside the technical errors of me and the person who edited this issue, I'm going to adress Overman's usage of the term broad first. Overman's world is set in the mid 70's I just planned to explain that later in the story. Lana's appearance in the crowd does foreshadow future events in the story, it has no barring on the nightclub scene though. To your wife, she's smart, because my current Clark I got inspiration from Red K Clark on Smallville. I hope that my portrayal of women in this issue doesn't offput you from reading this title. You have to remember though that the bar was in suicide slums, and the bar was run by a crime family, and so the fact that there are hookers only makes since in the long run. Also remember, if you will, nine months have passed since we last saw Lana (during Star's Parasite story), and you may not have considered that maybe this wasn't a reunion of high school lovers, maybe this was a chance encounter by two drunk adults in a bar one fateful night who know each other well enough they just aren't the best of friends. Now, you said you wanted to root against my Superman because, well simply, he's a dick, he's a prick, he's a soulless bastard who doesn't seem to have any but his base emotions of anger and pleasure. I'm working on a character who did some things and came to some conclusions he isn't exactly proud of. He has blocked everything out. He's won't,let himself care, he won't let himself have emotions because if he losers control over those emotions again, he might make the same mistake twice. So he limits himself to anger, because it's easier to control just anger than everything at once. I hope this has helped you understand everything just a little more, and I hope you continue to read.
-Elite
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2012 23:53:53 GMT -5
I try to read everything on the site, though there are a few titles I haven't gotten to yet (some I am in the middle of catching up on-Wonder Woman and Checkmate-and others I haven't started on yet though I intend to once I get the time). I won't stop reading a title here, just because I can't expect people to read my stuff if I don't take the time to read theirs. There are titles I like better than others, such is the way of things, but I always root for the ones I don't like to catch my fancy, or show something new to me because I want to like them all and I root for every writer here to get better (myself included). So no worries about me stopping reading. As for the honesty, I spent years teaching writing classes and sometimes it is necessary to be the bad guy when critiquing someone's stuff because we need to hear it as writers. We get so close to our stuff, we don't see it clearly, we sometimes lack perspective to objectively look at our stuff and see what works and what doesn't, what's good, what's bad, and what's just plain ugly. We fall in love with our first drafts and they are rarely anywhere near what a finished piece needs to be. We fall in love with stuff that needs to be cut, but we can't let it go. We don't see when something is missing. We need an objective set of eyes pointing shit out to us. So the honesty is sort of a tough love for writers. I am always worried someone will take it personally, but it's never about the person, it's about the work and the "writer" as a work in progress. If I took criticism of my writing personally I might never speak to my wife again She and I butt heads over story telling decisions all the time in my writing (she has yet however to read anything I have done for the site, but she has been one of my readers for other writing for years. As often as I disagree with her about such things, seeing her side and considering her suggestions forces me to relook at my stuff with new eyes and helps me decide what I need or want to do, whether I follow her suggestions or not. One of the reasons I went looking for a site like this back in January was to open myself up to criticism from new readers with new points of view. You don't need to justify your story-telling decisions to me, whether I like them or not, they're your decisions to make. I'll keep reading either way. Who you need to justify them to is yourself, keep asking yourself is this the right decision or the best decision each and every time you make one. It's how we develop our storytelling sense and out story instincts. I do it when I read other stuff as well (short stories, novels, "professional" comics) trying to understand why they made the decision they did, what it brings to the story, what it takes away, what else could have been done etc. I am currently trying to figure out what the hell Snyder was thinking in the latest issue of Batman in that regards. He is a writer I respect and enjoy, but I am having trouble figuring out his latest story telling decision. Of course with serial fiction, I may not see the whys and wherefores until the story is complete. Which brings us back to your Superman-the end may make all this payoff, but like I said redeeming this Clark Kent is going to be a long difficult road for you to travel in this reader's estimation, but I hope you get there, and I will be reading to find out if you do. -M
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Post by superecwfan1 on Jun 17, 2012 10:41:43 GMT -5
Just read #10 , as I am way behind on things due to work. Beyond the grammar issues , I won't nit pick at all. Because hell...we all have them. We all will do something there and I am the worst offender lol.
In all I liked it. I did like how you moved Superman into a new storyline in a sense and kept the prior work Stardrifter did. I hope the same relationships with Lex and others continue really. I also liked the Overman story as I can't wait til those 2 Supermen face each other. I really think this storyline could be fun and have more Supermen show up at times.
Gonna read #11 when I get more time. But nice decent read.
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Post by elite147 on Jun 18, 2012 1:42:27 GMT -5
Ultimate Superman Annual #1 is up, coming just before the 12th issue of an epic story started by Star almost one year ago. Witness the beginning of Clark's downfall from hero to zero, just like that, and just one more reason, for him to hate everything about himself. Issue #12 will be posted on June 21st, in homage to the posting of Ultimate Superman Issue #1.
-Elite
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Post by liquidsword34 on Jun 18, 2012 5:41:54 GMT -5
MASSIVE improvement over the previous few issues all around. For one, there were much less spelling and grammar mistakes which made it more enjoyable to read.
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Post by elite147 on Jun 18, 2012 10:14:24 GMT -5
Thank you. I put a lot more time and work into this issue.
-Elite
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Post by buck on Jun 18, 2012 12:11:01 GMT -5
I agree it was definitely a great improvement over the last issue. This really explains how Clark got to where he is.
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Post by elite147 on Jun 24, 2012 2:35:43 GMT -5
Ultimate Superman #12 is up. It's a little late, but I hope you enjoy. Next time is another Superman tale.
-Elite
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Post by liquidsword34 on Jun 24, 2012 7:02:48 GMT -5
I like the focus on Lex, and as with the annual it's all much easier to read what with the better grammar and spelling. I like where the story is going at the moment. I'm a tad confused. Am I right in thinking this issue and the annual take a place about the same time and before issue 12?
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Post by elite147 on Jun 24, 2012 11:58:38 GMT -5
This is issue twelve, and the middle part that takes place in 2011 takes place in between 9 & 10 during the nine month period. The 2012 parts of this issue with Bibbo, Lane, Lois, Lana and the special guest take place after issue 11.
-Elite
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2012 20:02:07 GMT -5
Caught up on the Annual and #12. As others have said, it is an improvement over 10 and 11. I am still reserving judgment on the story until the arc is completed, as some of my reservations may be addressed as the story progresses. I am interested to see where it all goes and what the payoff is, despite my feelings that this will be a difficult path to travel.
-M
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Post by elite147 on Jun 27, 2012 2:57:43 GMT -5
It is VERY short, but Issue #13 is up and serves as the conclusion to my first story arc. Look forward to more, because this is not the end of the story, just the arc, clearing some questions, and asking others.
-Elite
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2012 14:46:00 GMT -5
Ok read #13. A few initial thoughts...
1) it didn't feel like a conclusion but a cliffhanger instead...the story doesn't come to an ending, just a point where you stopped.
2) it could have used another pass or three of proofreading, pretty rife with typos, or just plain errors as the same typo is repeated again and again.
3) Alexander's exposition explaining things to Superman felt more like the author trying to explain things to the reader than an actual story element...
the cardinal rule of storytelling is show don't tell...if you have to resort to tell, you need to rethink how you are telling the story.
I am still in wait and see mode, but I am still not feeling any empathy for this iteration of Superman. And as an offshoot (and this may be unfair but it is what it is) the less the story draws me in the more attention I pay to the technical aspects of the writing.
Don't know what else to say, so keep them coming and I will keep reading and commenting.
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Post by liquidsword34 on Jun 29, 2012 15:53:52 GMT -5
3) Alexander's exposition explaining things to Superman felt more like the author trying to explain things to the reader than an actual story element... I agree with this. There's all this cross multi-verse, high stakes, General Zod invasion etc stuff, but we see none of it. I'm also confused as to whether Zod is on Earth 1, Earth 3 etc. has our Superman ever met him? It just seems like all of the plot elements where thrown in during the issue. It only really makes sense as being the ending of the story if it's a prologue story of sorts to the next arc, because it didn't end wrap up the story if anything it started it.
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Post by elite147 on Jun 29, 2012 18:32:54 GMT -5
Well, as I said ut isn't the end of the story, just the arc, because the arc was just focusing on who Clark is now. I understand that I could have written that better upon re-examining it.
Also, to Liquidsword, this issue still works on setting things up for future arcs, which is the reason I said this wasn't the end of the story just the arc.
Also, just like every other character I've showed in my story so far, the all exist on many different planets. Lex exists on both, along with Clark and Lana, so wouldn't it make since for Zod to exist on both too?
Also, nobody has said anything in the comments so far about this, so I'm just gonna ask right:
Was it portrayed clearly that Superman is now dead?
-Elite
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