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Post by jordan on Feb 4, 2014 11:06:24 GMT -5
Thanks for your compliments! As for your complaints, Dick Grayson is at a very...hard moment in his life right now. He's grieving the deaths of his parents and is at the beginning of a very hard emotional cycle to overcome that and become a greater character for it. As for a lighter character--I'm attempting to make Batman a little lighte,r Catwoman is a little light, but other than that you'll have to wait for lighter moments and characters as a whole.
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Post by Stardrifter on Feb 4, 2014 12:32:48 GMT -5
I think this was the strongest issue yet. Despite my general distaste for first person, it was well done. I agree things are too dark right now. As well written as it was, there's no "fun." As dark as Batman can be, you still have the action and the colorful villains that can be disturbingly fun. I don't feel you've gotten that part down yet.
I still don't understand Batman and Catwoman. She's a criminal. Now if you made a point to show Batman mentioning he's acting strange by going easy on her, his attraction clouding his judgement, then it'd work. But as I read it, he just looks like he doesn't care. He mentions how he is still shocked she's nineteen. Yeah, a nineteen year old girl who is goin to get killed and should be scared straight. I don't get it.
I had no problem with Dick's reaction, just the pacing. I felt that scene needed to be developed more. I think It would have been more effective for Dick to build up to such rage instead of going full blast through the whole thing.
Still, like I said, strongest one yet. Keep em coming.
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Post by superecwfan1 on Feb 10, 2014 7:39:41 GMT -5
So I decided to start on Ultimate Batman and see what its like. I plan to slowly catch up with pretty much everyone slowly.
- I really like the introduction to Jim Gordon in #0 . Its a good Introduction as we meet him . I like his narration and more from that. How he handles waiting on Batman . The case really picks up my interest at the end. How this Nightwing has abducted Dick Grayson.
- #1 starts off pretty solid as well. I enjoyed him facing off against this Nightwing for the 1st time. It was a pretty cool battle scene how brief it was. I did like the tale of the Coward and the Prince piece there. It was a great addition for this .
Also enjoyed the introduction of Haley and Don Grayson as well. How those 2 meet with Bruce and how he has to basically make sure his act is well and good. I liked that aspect a lot as he had to make sure his Bruce Wayne disguise works best.
At the end I enjoyed him meeting with Gordon and we see that meeting from his side . Where he gets the case of Dick Grayson.
My only real small issue is the "thoughts" or inner voice stuff that happens . Where the characters are talking to themselves. Maybe you need to try different colors and have them separate from the action your describing in sentences. Its only a small minor detail but I enhoyed the 1st , 2 parts. Will read some more soon !
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Post by DiscipleofBob on Feb 12, 2014 10:58:04 GMT -5
You're definitely improving with the first-person narrative prose. Where in previous issues were awkward and clunky in the thoughts if the narration, now things read much more smoothly. But where the prose is much better than before, I feel the content suffers somewhat. The four stories feel very disjointed, not connected at all. It doesn't feel like your first and third segments should be separated by a seemingly unrelated story involving Catwoman, for example. One thing you should really work on is identifying characters more. It's often difficult to determine who's speaking to whom, and sometimes I get the impression that I've switched POVs and have to scroll back up to determine if I'm still in Batman's head or someone else's. As far as characterization goes, Batman's fine, Alfred's fine, Gordon's fine. I can see how some people might not like Dick Grayson right now, but personally I found his characterization to be good as well. The angst is necessary and appropriate for someone in Grayson's position. What I hope is that this phase won't last too much longer and that we see him transition into Robin/Nightwing soon. The only character I can't stand is Catwoman. And I honestly don't think that's going to change for me outside of a retcon. When I think of Catwoman I picture an older, mature, confident woman who flirts with and teases Bat because she knows she can get away with it. This Catwoman is a nineteen-year old girl whose only real claim to being a master thief is calling herself that. And Batman, who I'm still picturing as a middle-aged man, or at least late twenties, does nothing but fantasize about the nineteen-year old girl in latex. That's like Wolverine macking on teenage Jean Grey levels of creepy. Seriously, nineteen, that's barely out of high school. She's like Teen Titans age. Also the filed down teeth is Killer Croc levels of crazy. Catwoman should not need a fake ID to get into a club. What I'm looking forward to is some action between Batman and Black Mask coming up. Minor spelling nitpick: through =/= threw. Also, they're not "bat-shaped knives," they're batarangs.
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Post by Drake on Feb 12, 2014 14:49:12 GMT -5
The filed teeth didn't please me as well.
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Post by Stardrifter on Feb 12, 2014 15:57:22 GMT -5
I third the teeth thing. Hopefully it's a prosthetic. How can you even have a secret id with filed down teeth?
The bat shaped knives thing, though, seems legit. Except for Golden Age/Adam West Batman, what Dark Knight is really going to call it a Batarang? At best Robin would call it that and Batman would eventually just kind of pick it up.
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Post by DiscipleofBob on Feb 12, 2014 16:47:50 GMT -5
I third the teeth thing. Hopefully it's a prosthetic. How can you even have a secret id with filed down teeth? The bat shaped knives thing, though, seems legit. Except for Golden Age/Adam West Batman, what Dark Knight is really going to call it a Batarang? At best Robin would call it that and Batman would eventually just kind of pick it up. The same guy who goes around punching bad guys while dressed like a bat.
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Post by superecwfan1 on Feb 15, 2014 0:27:46 GMT -5
I'm slowly catching up and finished the Nightwing arc of your Batman .
- I really enjoyed the twist with Nightwing and Maroni Head deal. I liked that twist we got with Haley and Don Grayson. Both great twists and as a fan I could see that play out.
- I also enjoyed your Alfred who is very sarcastic and Bruce leaving on his 18th birthday pretty much.
Now my knocks on the end of the arc.
- I think it felt rushed in a way. That you were rushing to end this arc and start the next one. With what we see at the end with Jim Corrigan. We see that Bruce learns Dick is at his house and yet , he doesn't seem as concerned for that and instead goes to have a meeting with Corrigan.
I think you could have started off your Gotham Wars big arc fresh with this meeting happening in #4 . That is my 2 cents.
Overall it was a pretty decent arc. I enjoyed it and I hope to enjoy your next one.
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Post by jordan on Feb 28, 2014 10:58:43 GMT -5
Alright, Gotham Wars Chapter III is out finishing the first phase of Gotham Wars. Next stop--Brave and Bold month! That's right, if you want to write a tie-in, this is the month! Just PM me and we'll work it out!
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Post by Drake on Mar 1, 2014 10:07:43 GMT -5
Nice issue. I wasn't a big fan of the ending scene entirely because of Dick's very cliche dialogue. Other than that, I enjoyed it. Your take on Black Mask is certainly different and interesting. I'm looking forward to Dick discovering the truth, and to where you'll take his and Bruce's relationship.
8/10
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Post by Stardrifter on Mar 1, 2014 10:35:53 GMT -5
Not bad. Interesting that Batman...kinda sucks. He keeps getting people killed. At least he realizes it.
Black Mask...I dunno. He kind of seemed like a mishmash of Two-Face and Scarface. But the confrontation really ruined the character for me. He lost any sense of menace and became just a crazy person. I don't know, it just didn't sit well with me.
I agree with Drake about the scene with Dick. It feels to me like you're rushing his development. I groaned at the "I want to be a hero" line. It doesn't ring true.
That aside, it was a well written issue. I only noticed one spelling error and it was a dropped t. I'm interested in the B&tB month. Keep em coming.
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Post by DiscipleofBob on Mar 17, 2014 23:08:53 GMT -5
I have to question the narrative decision to kill off the girl.
You already did the whole Batman-fails-to-save-someone before, so now it just looks like he sucks at the whole vigilante thing.
After playing the Arkham games, anytime Batman doesn't methodically take down everyone from the shadows it feels like amateur hour in the Batcave. There were any number of things he could have done to save the girl, but instead he focuses on the paper? Speaking of which, you never actually said the paper ignited. It was just "kerosene-dipped knife" and the next paragraph the stack of paper is already on fire.
Your Black Mask is Two-Face. Everything from the personality to the symbolism to the "two" references. It makes me wonder why you bothered to reinvent Black Mask when you could have just used Two-Face to accomplish the exact same thing.
The scenes with Robin feel a tad rushed, but that seems like a narrative necessity. At least you're making an effort to develop a relationship between Bruce and Dick and build up to the Batman/Robin dynamic.
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Post by adrini on Apr 9, 2014 20:33:05 GMT -5
Pm for you.
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Post by C_Miller on Jun 22, 2014 11:42:41 GMT -5
Okay, so I finished up Jordan's run on the title. It was super difficult since Jordan made a lot of choices that I wasn't a fan of but it allows me to kind of start over and it allows me to still use his run as an important bench mark because while I wasn't a fan of it, it doesn't take away from the merit of his run creatively. And it allowed me to channel (Read: Steal from) Morrison, which is always a good time.
The next issue shouldn't take me as long as it will be 100% from my voice and my ideas (despite ideas I choose to borrow from Morrison, Dini, Snyder, O'Neill, Englehart and yes, even our very own MRP). So yeah, here's to the future!
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Post by Stardrifter on Jun 22, 2014 14:10:16 GMT -5
You numbered your issue wrong.
I'm torn. On the one hand, I wasn't a huge fan of the Batman run. On the other hand, it was still a legitimate run that was in continuity. And while it's still "in continuity," you essentially took a dump on it and hand waved it away.
As someone who dropped a title in continuity, I would be beyond pissed if Drake had made my Aquaman run all a dream. As I read it I thought perhaps you were going for alternate reality, with Bruce or someone crossing into our reality. Which, while still letting you do your own thing, would have at least kept Jordan's run as events that actually happened.
The issue itself was fine. Though I think you should have kept it first person to fit with the rest of the run.
I don't know. I'm torn on my opinion. I understand why you did it, but I don't know if I agree with it.
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Post by Drake on Jun 22, 2014 14:37:10 GMT -5
Wow...Star is right. That chapter really makes you feel conflicted.
I mean, it's clever how you developed the dream world, but it feels a little cheap. Maybe I'm in the minority, but I enjoyed Jordan's run. I felt he brought new ideas to the Bat table in a very "ultimate" way. Now....I don't know. I'm looking forward to your run, but.....
I can't rate this. It would be impossible for me to actually score it if I wanted to. I look forward to your run. You're a talented writer. This just felt a little cheap.
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Post by C_Miller on Jun 22, 2014 15:34:30 GMT -5
I definitely understand where you're coming from. I don't want to argue too much, but I will say that calling it all a dream isn't true. That's most likely my fault in explaining it at the end there and much it comes from throwing Scarecrow in there. It very much was real to him and it will inform the entirety of my run on the title. Rather than a Dallas or a Newhart type situation, I view this more as an Inner Light situation or even better where Chief O'Brien was given the memories 20 year prison sentence in a fraction of a second. Just because it happened in Batman's head doesn't mean it isn't real to him. And it will continue to inform his relationships with the people around him.
Plus the Nightwing character was too perfect as a psychological cipher.
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Post by adrini on Jun 22, 2014 20:01:27 GMT -5
Points for the DS9 reference. Love that show..
I'm good with the semi-retcon. Jordan's batman had the attitude but not as much effectiveness as I would have liked. Heros safe the day and much of the time his didn't. I know I was raised on silver age, but that bothers me.
I like his human nature aspect, well done. Having the past events be a warning - what will be if he fails- is fairly Brillant. Could really be a driving force for the whole thing.
Other then that it is an Origen story, but such is the nature of our work. Overall, I approve. Well done.
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Post by jordan on Jun 30, 2014 12:00:51 GMT -5
So I've read your Batman and, all in all, it was a well written first chapter. I think this is probably one of my favorite things that you've written for these boards and it really shows not only your own writing style but it also pulls from so many sources that I feel it applies to any Batman fan from any generation. I think that using my run as a form of "What Will Happen If Batman Fails" idea is very, very clever.
Now, onto the obvious elephant in the room. Several people above have addressed how they think you could've done this differently to incorporate my run or continue it or whatever and so this is a message to everyone really and not just you. Where I think there were ways you could have taken my run and continued from where I'd left and really turned it into your own, I think that the way you did it was not only original but perfectly okay. This board is about taking the work of others and using it to make your own work. It's something that I think is lost in translation a lot of times because people are too afraid to touch what's already been touched and they want to make their "own thing" and right here you've proven that you can make your own thing while not only keeping what has happened previously in tact, but also by using it to push your stories forward. You easily could've just capped off Gotham Wars and then never really referenced my run again while pushing forward and taking my Batman to newer and better heights. But you didn't, you used my run as a sort of backbone to your run, and it really not only validates my run and shows your creativety, but also, I believe, shows others that they can use what's already been done and create whatever they want out of it. Between your Batman run and Drake's Aquaman, you guys are really going to shows everyone what this board really means.
Overall, 6.6/10. Keep em coming.
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Post by DiscipleofBob on Jul 1, 2014 23:19:05 GMT -5
Honestly, it's too early to call this chapter a handwave, but it's easy to see why a reader might see it that way.
I think the big thing that's missing that you can touch upon is something to give the reader an idea of what differences there are between the dream world and the real one. For all we know right now everything that happened in Jordan's run still happened. And as for any differences that you do have planned, as a reader I'd personally like to see some reasons why Batman's psyche changed the world the way it did.
We do get a brief introduction to Hugo Strange and a mention of Scarecrow with the fear toxin, which is a good start to developing Batman's rogue's gallery, but so far this is still basically a first chapter, and therefore very difficult to give an accurate review of.
Overall, well-written with good tension leading up to the big reveal, though I think at some point you crossed the line from "clever references to comic canon" to straight up copying line for line from the comic a few times.
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