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Post by adrini on Oct 23, 2014 15:22:58 GMT -5
Okay. With Sara safely dead Arrow is watchable again and the scenes with Ted were *really* good - very likely going to be the highlight of the show for me now. Still not taken with Oliver, way too everyman. Needs some notable character traits. That said they are molding Cassity into the Black Canary I've been waiting 20 years for *perfectly*. She leans on herself, has trouble trusting, and loves Dad above all else. *Perfecto*. They're even making it clear she isn't alcoholic, about time after last season. And as much as I know Dad will likely be killed off I'm loving every moment of him. Also after the idiot ball of season 2 she's perfectly no nonsense, get his done, make this happen. There was even a hint of flirting with the old flame, never expected that. Seems he does give a shit.
Thea is growing on me, and if she does "pull a Mia" and get Oliver to stop being an ass I will love her for it. Forever. Though I'm not sure if she's Mia or Rose at this point. Both?
Digs I love, but I always did. Nothing new there.
And Felicity is just annoying, I get that she has fans but I'm not one. Plus every time I see her I wonder why they couldn't afford Babs and do it right.
I took a real chance, a deep breath, waited till Sara was safely dead and buried, and color me impressed. So long as we can avoid another season 2 I think I'll be okay.
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Post by Drake on Oct 23, 2014 18:46:59 GMT -5
I'm glad that problem's been worked out.
Buuuutt....my opinions are pretty different than yours. While I thought Laurel was better than most of her previous appearances, I think I really more bear her than like her. The torturing the injured guy in 302 didn't help.
Thea's definitely improved. I like her a lot now. As for who's she like....I don't know. She's WAY too nice to be Rose (I love Rose btw) and she's a little too "trained by a bad guy/doesn't have prostitute past" to be Mia. To be honest, I think she's herself, and I also think her story with Merlyn is just beginning. Did ya catch the Mia "cameo"?
I personally love Felicity. She's certainly been a bit more annoying this season, but I can't help but absolutely adore her. She's funny, smart, and most importantly nice. That's a rare trait on this show. Even Oliver's a bit of an ass. Dig's one of the other exceptions.
I don't think they're going the everyman route with Oliver. The everyman implies he's relatable, sympathetic, and usually quite good. Ollie's....well, I like Oliver, but I think he's just not incredibly well acted or written. I love Stephen Amell, but he's definitely a TV actor.
Lastly, Season 2's my favorite season, even outdoing 3 so far. I will admit Ted's cool, and Ray's a breath of (slightly creepy) fresh air, but the plot feels a bit too...Deathstroke-less. That's really my way of saying the big bads rule the show, and so far Deathstroke hasn't been seen, Malcolm has only had a few scenes (although that looks to improve in the future), and we haven't met Ra's. For me, the weekly baddies have been the weakest part of the show, but the Whedon-esque Big Bads have been the highlight. Best actors and best written.
Still, I love Arrow! SHIELD and Flash are currently beating it out, but it's still near the top. It was the first, and it certainly matters to me a lot.
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Post by adrini on Oct 23, 2014 19:49:30 GMT -5
She's "Black" Canary for a reason. That's no accident. Every origin story she has she fights her own darkness. Plus it's REALLY nice for her to take hold of her own life in hands and learn to be selfish. Her "friends" have put her through hell, and left her to deal with it mostly alone. Too involved in their own hell to much care about hers. Love her relationship with Dad, one person she CAN count on. She can do better via friends though, much better. For her own good.
There's a Mia Cameo? Like the real Mia? Tell me there is. I did catch her using the name. Mixed feelings there.
Felicity is an acquired taste. Some people love her, some not. I'm not anti-felicity, I'm just not a fan. She feels like a watered down Babs. Having read BOP for so long it falls flat for me.
He's not "ollie". None of the major traits are there. There are so many I really wonder why they don't start at least one. So many to choose from, it's lazy not to try.
As per "big bads", it's episode 3. Give it time. I'm sure there's plenty of explosions to come. Loads promised.
SHIELD is tops for me (Mocking Bird!!!) and I WILL find time to watch Flash at some point. ><
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Post by thetrueelec on Oct 23, 2014 19:52:40 GMT -5
I'm not entirely sure how Oliver can be seen as an 'everyman' he's very obviously a man burdened with not only the things he's seen but also the things he's done and is doing. He's almost never able to relax both because he's so used to being in situations were doing that will get him killed and because he feels if he does something bad will happen. Oliver is a broken man, and it seems his development has been him slowly getting better, with the end result him becoming Green Arrow.
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Post by DiscipleofBob on Oct 23, 2014 19:57:47 GMT -5
'Everyman' is our (mine and Adrini's) term for the Arrow version of Oliver Queen.
The man in the show is not Oliver Queen or Green Arrow. He's some dark, gritty fake version of the Green Arrow we know and love. Season 3 might make things better, but that remains to be seen.
Everyman was a character in the comics who impersonated Oliver while the real one was kidnapped and maintained his cover until he literally couldn't get it up with Dinah.
Hence why we call the CW version of Arrow Everyman.
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Post by thetrueelec on Oct 23, 2014 20:01:29 GMT -5
Ah that makes much more sense, though I'd say this Oliver becoming the Oliver from the comics is a big part of the show, there's a reason he's not being called Green Arrow yet and has to, in the producer's words, 'earn' the title.
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Post by Drake on Oct 23, 2014 20:04:45 GMT -5
That makes a lot more sense now.
I have to agree with elec. The show's whole purpose is to show Oliver's development from murderous asshole The Hood to wise-cracking, loyal Green Arrow.
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Post by adrini on Oct 23, 2014 21:48:15 GMT -5
That would fly but this is season 3 now. The man to be is a long way off, sure, but he needs to at least be getting started. Even Laurel has a trainer for goodness sake(and holy hell that put that off), so you know it's late in the game.
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Post by Drake on Oct 24, 2014 9:59:58 GMT -5
Well if a trainer is all you need then the Island flashbacks should be it for you.
EDIT: sorry, that sounded snarky, but it is a fair point.
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Post by adrini on Oct 24, 2014 11:14:22 GMT -5
I was unclear. The two key development for the two vary.
Di was training. They took two years but they got there. She has the core personality and that path is fairly clear. It looks okay.
Ollie was personality. He came trained. It's not the skills he's missing, it's the soul. This includes a number of options, it's a real list, but by season three they need to be working on one of the things on that list at least. I'm not even all that picky on where they start, so long as they do.
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Post by Drake on Nov 12, 2014 15:12:38 GMT -5
So Laurel's BC costume has been released in an image. It's very, very cool, but I think this whole crime fighting things is being rushed. If hoped we wouldn't see her in costume till season four.
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Post by adrini on Nov 12, 2014 15:49:01 GMT -5
She's been trained in self defense since childhood and who knows how much of a time jump they are going to pull. Also Ted is getting some kind of past and that will likely effect her as well (despite having a father he's becoming a father to her as well, I love it!) so it might explain the get up. And as always Ted means speed training. It's a meme but a well loved one.
The outfit is okay I guess, I don't get all the buckles certainly, but she's getting there. Article even mentioned standing up to Oliver and it's about damn time someone did. I also like how its her outfit. The theme is the same but the details have been changed. That needed to happen.
I also recall in my old silver age comics it took BC1 a few tries to really grow into everything, though she was a "prodigy" in the since she picked up the raw skills there was a challenge in gaining experience. If Wildcat really takes her on he's the bridge - he can take her out and get that taken care of also.
Alot of "ifs", I know, but it can work if they play it right.
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Post by adrini on Nov 12, 2014 15:52:09 GMT -5
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Post by Ultimate Silentking on Nov 12, 2014 16:47:17 GMT -5
There is something I don't like about the costume. And I mean the costume itself, not the fact it is a big departure from the comics. I don't know, I just don't like it. I will let you know once I figure out what it is that I don't like.
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Post by adrini on Nov 12, 2014 16:48:37 GMT -5
I really don't like the buckles. I think they are meant to badass, but they just come off as dominatrix.
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Post by Drake on Nov 12, 2014 22:24:12 GMT -5
I really don't agree with that argument adrini, because first off, as you said, it involves a lot of 'ifs.' Second, "years" (I use quotations because it was probably just a few) of self defense is nothing compared to the five years of hell/intense training with some of the most badass people on Earth that both Oliver and Sara went through.
Now, that said, this episode and some comments from the showrunners have made me feel a little better about it. For one, SPOILERS, Ted was previously a vigilante and can train Laurel specifically for that. On top her background in self defense and recent quick learning with boxing, it's MILDLY believable. But then the showrunners went and straight up said that she was going to fail a lot at first. As long as she isn't being a ridiculous bad ass, I can believe it. That works with me.
In addition to this, Laurel's growing on me. I still think she's a bit of a bitch, but a bitch is better than a whining crybaby. Plus, she can kinda kick ass now. That certainly helps.
Ted was totally awesome this episode, and I'm beyond happy that they're going the "mentor-mentee" route with his and Laurel's relationship. I really thought since he was so young that they'd hook up. Guess not. You never know though.
Lastly, I've been thinking this season's been lacking in quality, especially in comparison to The Flash and the second season of Agents of SHIELD, but this episode alleviated my fears and doubts. It was very well done, and considering it focused on who I think are the two weakest characters on the show (namely Laurel and Roy) it was a bit mind blowing.
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Post by adrini on Nov 12, 2014 23:30:48 GMT -5
Not touching that first part. Too many tiggers. Lets just say I disagree to a certain degree.
Di was always a quick study, but like I said, needs on the ground experience. Enter Ted. With the time jump it should be a number of months of training, plus the prior training She shouldn't be that far out, aside from Rookie mistakes all newbies make (including Oliver once, if you remember the costume in the stairwell) After all Thea had almost 0 training but after 5 months with her bio dad people are willing to accept that she's a fighter, and that was with Merlyn.
And the bitch is actually a big part of the character. She falls under the best friend/worst enemy meme. There for the Birds through thick and thin, perfectly willing to walk away and let Craig be killed though she could have stopped it. I don't think she even mentioned it after, didn't seem to bother her. Ted does right by her and she'll soften when she realizes she can be safe doing so. She's close with Dad. Why should she offer the same to the others? It hasn't really been given. I think at this point she's just generally freakin' tired of being hurt, if shields and masks will stop some of that it's a fair trade right now.
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Post by Drake on Nov 13, 2014 9:22:29 GMT -5
Hey, I agree with you. Roy and Thea both shouldn't be bad asses. Laurel has way more of an excuse than they do.
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Post by thetrueelec on Nov 13, 2014 19:05:47 GMT -5
So I got a couple episodes behind but I need to catch up for one reason, and really one reason only. BOXING GLOVE ARROW! They did it, they actually freaking did it, it is a great time to be alive.
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Post by adrini on Nov 13, 2014 19:25:04 GMT -5
LOL. I need to catch up to. I want to see that.
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