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Post by ericthepilot on May 4, 2015 23:18:53 GMT -5
And any Green Arrow movie would likely be just as painful as the show. I'm going to go ahead and hope it never happens. I admit, I actually liked the Supermax concept they'd come out with. The trailer and script were pretty interesting.
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Post by ericthepilot on Jul 3, 2015 12:06:19 GMT -5
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Post by adrini on Jul 3, 2015 12:42:28 GMT -5
That's DC. They'll have to hit rock bottom before they get the message.
On the flip side Ant man looks really good.
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Post by Drake on Jul 3, 2015 14:23:28 GMT -5
Rock bottom implies they're not going to make boatloads of money on this movie. BvS could very well outdo Civil War as far as box office revenue goes. It's the two most popular superheroes on screen together for the first time, and the most popular female superhero's debut in film. Regardless of how you feel about the film or Warner Bros' approach to superhero films, it's hard to argue that people won't see the movie. Hell, even some of my grimdark hating friends are excited because it's goddamn Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman.
I, for one, am excited for that very reason. I'm also pumped for Ant-Man. Hell, I'll happily take all the superhero movies and decide after I see 'em whether they're good or bad.
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Post by adrini on Jul 3, 2015 14:51:38 GMT -5
Movies like this are measured by comparison. There is a bench mark - it's marvel.
Winter Soldier. Guardians. All the Avengers. To say they are kicking ass is a massive under statement. BUCKETS AND BUCKETS OF MONEY. Records being broken. Legends in their own time.
MOS? Meh. Fair to middling on rotten tomatos. Few love it. Some are okay with it, many despise it. Made okay money, nothing that really made the news, more press from shocked viewers not really buying the "philosophy". Though I hesitate calling it even that, it's more of a "mood". My father, a live long sups fan (he still has the superman plushy from 1951 he played with as an infant) went to see it. Left after half an hour. This is not a good thing. That man is obsessed with Clark, always has been. Wasn't able to sit it out.
Once it becomes clear, even to them, that their philosophy is just not compeating they will change. I would argue that after they came out with "supergirl" they might be trying it out already.
Fact is that Marvel is doing it right, they are giving us hero films. I can't be the only one who found toppeling building full of soon to be dead people in MOS less then entirely inspiring.
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Post by Drake on Jul 3, 2015 17:38:55 GMT -5
LOL MoS is far from inspiring, no matter what Snyder says.
However, the dark tone tended to be pretty low on the list of the general audience's problems with the movie. The crappy script and wanton destructoporn (which is different than darkness) topped that. BvS got Chris Terrio, an Oscar-winning screenwriter, to redo the script. Sadly, Snyder's still directing, but at least the dialogue and plot are bound to be amazing, and Cavill was far from the worst thing in MoS. Hell, I'm pumped for Batfleck and a DKR Batman.
I'd also point out that lifelong Superman fans (or fans of anything) probably have a certain nostalgia for elements and takes on the character. So, considering MoS (which I will agree isn't a very good movie) was different than HIS Superman, he despised it. That's just a guess, but if he's anything like you then it's probably true. Now, that's totally fair; all I'm saying is fans' opinions on new takes should be taken with a grain of salt. ANY fan, including myself, has a very skewed perspective. I freaked when Superior Spider-Man started. I nearly dropped all my Marvel titles. Thankfully, I didn't and I gave Superior a chance because it turned out to be one of the best Spider-Man stories I've ever read that showed why Peter is the greatest Spider-Man and arguably the greatest hero of them all. Enough with the tangent though...
I also agree with you that Marvel's way is the way to go (although they certainly have things they can improve on). I just respect Warner Bros. for having the cajones to try something different, even if it's odd, wrong, or potentially even bad. Maybe it'll work out. Maybe it won't. Maybe it will for some movies, but won't for others. Maybe it will for all the movies, but they try something different anyway. Who knows?
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Post by adrini on Jul 3, 2015 18:22:14 GMT -5
It might be nostalgia. I never expected him to like the film - the tone was too changed. But 50 years of loyalty wasn't enough of a call to even watch the whole thing, and he basically wasted a movie ticket- which alone is unheard of for him. He never wastes money, never.
I don't mind the dark stuff for dark topics, but they need to let up. So far as I can tell, between tv and movies, they have two modes. Cheap soap opera and gritty gritty dark dark. Both of which are over represented already, so I can't really call them "different". They're really more of the same but with people we're supposed to call heroes somehow.
The grim dark is especially pointless. You are never going out grimdark Game of Throwns. That nitch is theirs, the kingship is claimed. Move on.
What kills me is they have KILLER stories in the DCU. Grade A material. Everything Marvel is doing they could blow out of the water, easily. But they almost mindfully choose not to. So we can break necks instead. I don't get it. I really don't get it.
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Post by Drake on Jul 3, 2015 18:54:25 GMT -5
Fair enough. I don't know if they could beat Marvel, but then again I'm a Marvel fanboy. I'll always love Spidey, Cap, Cyke, and the Guardians more than anyone in the DCU except the Flashes and Tim Drake. Well, the old Tim Drake. Even still, my Marvel faves probably outrank my DC ones. It's nostalgia, I guess. What I grew up on, the likes.
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Post by thetrueelec on Jul 3, 2015 20:01:21 GMT -5
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Post by adrini on Jul 3, 2015 20:23:00 GMT -5
How is heroes caring about civilians and getting then out "wrong"? Sounds, and it's sad he fails to get this, heroic to me. Maybe it's growing up military but avoiding civilian casualties is kinda something you're expected to do by default as part of wearing the uniform. It's an assumed part of the job.
I also wouldn't call MOS "mythic". Depressing as hell, disturbing on many levels, but not mythic.
Also, and on a related note. Avengers made how much money?
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Post by thetrueelec on Jul 3, 2015 21:24:02 GMT -5
It's exactly the reason MoS is so terrible, because Snyder seems to buy into the whole 'Superman is a boy-scout and uninteresting' bullshit that's common on the internet. So he made a movie where Superman was dark and gritty and killed people and was all around terrible except for the casting. Unfortunately enough people buy into the thoughts on Superman that there are people who loved the movie despite it being shit.
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Post by Drake on Jul 4, 2015 9:16:27 GMT -5
Yeah, what elec said.
Morrison, no matter how you feel about him, is widely considered one of the greatest writers of our time. Do you know what he said Superman fights? Not Lex Luthor, or anything minuscule like that, but on a larger level? "Superman fights the impossible." Look it up. He said it, and that's why Grant Morrison gets it. Lord knows he's fucking crazy, and I think some of his work is super overrated (no pun intended) but he gets it. Superman fights the impossible. It's what he does. He's also more relatable than fucking Batman, who I probably like more than Superman, but who isn't relatable at all. Morrison agrees with me. Enough about that though.
So, Zack Snyder believed Superman wasn't human enough, that he needed to be made more realistic to succeed? Why the hell didn't anyone send in Grant Morrison to talk to him? Like, really. And do Geoff Johns and co. actually like MoS? I'm sure Dan Didio does. He's crazy about grit and darkness. But serious, competent writers/artists with high-ranking positions? I'm genuinely curious about how they actually feel. I'd love to talk to Johns or Jim Lee one-on-one about it.
EDIT: Just realized that argument was a bit vague. Snyder thinks it's "impossible" to save civilians during a crisis like the Kryptonian invasion. I was saying that's kinda the point. It's impossible but Superman does it anyway.
Oh, and he's relatable. He's an orphan. He's a middle-class farm boy who grows up to be a middle-class reporter. He gets yelled at by his boss. He doesn't always get the girl. Sure, he's one of the strongest heroes in existence and he's a really good guy, but he's still relatable. He still experiences human issues. His problems are just on a super level. That's the point.
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Post by ericthepilot on Jul 12, 2015 9:36:58 GMT -5
Pretty sure it's beating a dead horse, and it's not going to change any views one way or the other, but at least this one gives us a bit more of a sense of the story:
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Post by adrini on Jul 12, 2015 13:13:01 GMT -5
Pass. For a million reasons.
Though I do find it amusing that it's a better Jesus the "the passion".
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Post by adrini on Jul 13, 2015 16:57:18 GMT -5
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Post by ericthepilot on Jul 13, 2015 18:49:28 GMT -5
That was really nice, and pretty clearly sums up a lot of the problems Warner is having with their entire universe right now, comics and movies.
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Post by thetrueelec on Jul 13, 2015 19:03:32 GMT -5
Actually the current Superman storyline seems to get Superman better than anything in a while.
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Post by adrini on Jul 13, 2015 19:43:30 GMT -5
Comic wise?
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Post by thetrueelec on Jul 13, 2015 19:45:33 GMT -5
Yeah the one where he's lost most of his powers.
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Post by adrini on Jul 13, 2015 19:51:21 GMT -5
I miss family.
When i read GA there was AIDS, rape, Roy lost his arm, Lian died - it was bad. But there was family. And as odd as that sounds...it bridges that gap. It makes it less grimdark and more a gruelling but growing trial of the human soul, that these events don't break down and destroy, but instead lead to the person finding a way to be more, because they aren't fighting even the worst alone. I really, really miss that.
But hey, we can have Jesus metaphors and falling buildings. /sigh
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