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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2015 12:57:07 GMT -5
Between Marvel's massive summer event and the ridiculously lucrative Star Wars line I'm not sure DC would be doing well even if they were putting out the absolute best work imaginable. Marvel is just a runaway freight train right now.
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Post by adrini on Aug 7, 2015 13:17:44 GMT -5
They've been in relative free fall for sometime now (see prior reports on this line). From the time of flash point it's down over 50% (again, citations from paper and online publishers listed before on this thread). There was a minor bump after new-52, but that's long gone.
It's not the characters that aren't loved, they regularly make lists of beloved characters. By all accounts the fans are there, they just won't buy the characters as they are being sold at present. It's not working.
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Post by Drake on Aug 7, 2015 13:29:48 GMT -5
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Post by adrini on Aug 7, 2015 13:33:27 GMT -5
I would love to verify that but it has no citations. It's pulling numbers from somewhere but it won't say or cite where.
By all means, I'll look at any source data. But interpretations can be twisted. I want primary information, diamond gives that which is why I trust it.
Also they lost points in both June and July. That I know.
Also we agree, DC needed a reboot. It's a matter of how far they went in erasing so much.
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Post by Drake on Aug 7, 2015 13:34:59 GMT -5
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Post by Drake on Aug 7, 2015 13:35:55 GMT -5
That article was relating it to sales given by Diamond.
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Post by adrini on Aug 7, 2015 13:41:59 GMT -5
Sales is 1/4 of it. The problem with DC is it sells JL and Batman like mad. No one argues that. But those are the only titles that seem to make it. Marvel regularly has titles like howard the duck and squirrel girl make the list (not knocking either, but if they can make the list there's no reason Green Arrow and Starfire can't as well).
The thing to watch (according to the economics majors I talked to on campus) is marketshare. Selling 2-3 titles well is fine, really, well done. Selling 15< is better.
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Post by Drake on Aug 7, 2015 13:44:24 GMT -5
I'm not disagreeing with you that Marvel does a better job of pushing smaller characters. I'm just refuting your statement that DC's sales are down since the reboot.
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Post by adrini on Aug 7, 2015 14:09:36 GMT -5
They really are. But they have big sellers that keep them above water. There's a reason they're doing all things Batman, he is literally their life blood right now. The dangers (again, economics majors) take two major forms.
1) Market saturation: People will have enough batman. It will happen. Unless what you sell is food, water or basic utilities the party does not last forever. It's why there's coke, but also cherry coke, sprite and so forth. I like coke, drank it as a kid, but I get tired of it and order a mountain dew sometimes as well.
2)Do no ignore the smaller markets: While the fandoms of each of the smaller characters might be minor in comparison, added together they make the meat of the company. Variety is key in holding large numbers of fans. Going full on Batman is not achieving this.
Also you seem to be confusing top 100 books(not bad) with over all sales(not the same thing). For that one looks at over all sales and marketshare. And in that, also by diamond, marvel is nearing 50% where DC is nearing the low 20%.
Stable? Eh? It's not falling *as much*, and that is something. But it also has a sea of exfans and is not going up.
But I like hope, maybe with "you", they figure it out. Bring back enough of the old stuff to being back old fans, keep enough to keep new one and start recovering. We needed a reboot, but this is not working.
Me thinks the middle way, without everyone being batman, and Didio admitting he does have all the ideas might be the best plan. DC has ties to so many masters, chasing them away wasn't called for.
Also in looking at the sales report the Jl books are $4.99 to $5.99, to Marvels standard range of $2.99-$3.99. So even selling the name number of volumes the market total would be more via price padding. Plus I know that DC buys back unsold copies so they won't have to report them (friend insider, comic shop nearby).
I'm honestly wondering how much I can trust any of these numbers now. There's unsavory stuff here.
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Post by Drake on Aug 7, 2015 16:00:04 GMT -5
Actually, there was one expensive JL book. On average, Marvel's books are $4 while DC's are closer to $3.5 (not that any are 3.50, but they have far more 2.99 books). Trust me on that. I actively buy a lot of comics.
EDIT: And if you look at all the titles, you'll see it's true. However, the entire marketplace is leaning towards $4 so whatever.
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Post by adrini on Aug 7, 2015 16:11:34 GMT -5
I did look at the list, the 100 you posted.
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Post by Drake on Aug 7, 2015 17:13:44 GMT -5
I don't know what to say then. Marvel's got a few big 2.99 sellers (Ms. Marvel comes to mind), but most of theirs and DC's hits are 3.99. Again, JLA at 5.99 or whatever was very unusual. The second issue went for 3.99.
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Post by adrini on Aug 18, 2015 11:22:07 GMT -5
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Post by ericthepilot on Aug 18, 2015 14:19:04 GMT -5
Interesting article, but I admit I'm not sure how they came to that conclusion. DC has frequently been accused of paying TOO much attention to continuity, I've never seen anyone suggest they need more of it. Marvel's doing better , but I can't see how it's because they revel in continuity.
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Post by thetrueelec on Aug 18, 2015 19:51:16 GMT -5
Yeah, if anything Marvel, at least before Secret Wars had the same view of continuity as DC has now, yes it exists and happened but unless a story needs to reference it we don't have to bring it up.
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Post by Drake on Aug 18, 2015 20:01:57 GMT -5
Frankly, the argument holds no bearing as Secret Wars plays off nostalgia, not continuity. The main series is fun, dandy, and new, but the tie ins are just reinventions of older stories, drawing people in with their name and basic concepts, not continuity. In fact, of any event, ignoring Hickman's own epic story, Secret Wars is the LEAST continuity-heavy event I've read.
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Post by adrini on Aug 25, 2015 13:49:57 GMT -5
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Post by adrini on Aug 25, 2015 13:50:36 GMT -5
Money is the game. If nostalgia sells that's still money.
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Post by ericthepilot on Aug 25, 2015 14:46:48 GMT -5
I wish this would result in a course correction, but sadly since they haven't actually lost money, there's little reason for one on a corporate level. Unless the article was just worded poorly, it certainly suggests that there were profits at least somewhat in line with expectations that got consumed by poorly budgeting the west coast move, so even if they expected to do better than that at least in their eyes they did something. That leaves no impetus for creative change linewide
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Post by adrini on Aug 25, 2015 14:49:42 GMT -5
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