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Post by thetrueelec on Aug 25, 2015 18:57:17 GMT -5
It may just be simply the other companies have been putting out better books than DC and finally DC fans have taken notice.
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Post by adrini on Aug 25, 2015 19:09:30 GMT -5
Sadly I can't argue that. DOB has been "watching" the issues from new-52 to present and we've been talking about it. While some are good (never though I'd like Batman) most are....not.Sorry, but I grew up with really good DC and this isn't worth the trade.
They also mentioned going back to "meat and potatoes", namely that some books work with gimmicks but not all. Batgirl was called a success. They seem to be saying that if a gimmick isn't working, it isn't working. Which sounds simplistic, but also true. I would agree. Oliver does not need Zombies.
In anycase losing 2 mil in 7 months does call for something. That some serious coin.
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Post by adrini on Aug 28, 2015 11:15:03 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2015 11:44:51 GMT -5
Good god, the amount of snark on that website is painful.
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Post by Drake on Aug 28, 2015 13:52:42 GMT -5
LMFAO that site is run by assholes!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2015 14:03:29 GMT -5
Clearly. Everything is negative.
It's fine to have an opinion, but they're slamming Comicvine for no reason, and they're making points that are stupid.
Yes, DC are embracing the digital age. There being viable alternatives for people to read is no DC's fault.
Basically, it's a massive whinge session "Oh, my childhood heroes are not the same anymore!" No, they're not. Because the world moves on.
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Post by adrini on Aug 28, 2015 14:33:22 GMT -5
I agree with much of that but read the last section again. The argument is not that every detail must the same, is that the core -soul- of the character must carry on it they won't be recognizable and thus be left behind as one time fans move on due to having no reason to stay. As profit loss and market-share margin would show now.
The key is to upgrade the packaging while keeping the soul in tact.
Personally, I agree. Gutting a beloved hero because they can't be bothered to write a new character isn't okay. It's cheap and frankly insulting. Want a new guy, write a new guy. They claim to be creative. Like millions of other once-buying fans when the soul comes back, so will I. They could be making bank.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2015 14:40:07 GMT -5
They are creative. What they're doing is a creative take on an existing character. It just doesn't suit everyones taste.
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Post by adrini on Aug 28, 2015 14:51:52 GMT -5
It's not a take, it's a erasure and replacement while keeping the name.
I will take 99% of new characters thrown at me. I actually prefer them as they have more chance to really go new places. But if I show up for Dinah/Diana/Clark etc I need to recognize them as such. They aren't new, they're old friends. Put on new cloths, maybe go on new adventures but still who they are. Otherwise they're just new.
Which put them in the box with the new lines and characters from every other company as well. And to stand out there a character has to be really REALLY good. These really aren't.
I get they took a risk, but it didn't work and they need to be brave enough to admit that as well. Two million loss this year alone(so far), 20 point gap with Marvel - it's not working. Going back to 1984 won't work but ignoring there were things in 1984 that did is idiotic. Bring back what will work and make something new and likely better. These guys have been here for coming up on 75 years. Maybe they had something worth saving. Plus they really need to make money.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2015 15:12:39 GMT -5
I'd argue that actually, replacement while keeping the name is a take, but there we are.
They took a risk and they're sticking with it, which is an equally brave move. Some elements haven't stuck, but they'll be replaced shortly by older versions of the character. Superman, I am sure, will revert (hopefully without a literal demon in a bottle to replace the identity thing)
Yes, two million is a significant loss, but is that loss 100% from comic sales? or is it a multimedia based thing? I think what most people griping about is that they want to go back to how it was before, which would alienate the Nu52 fans. Sure, bring back some elements, like what Hitch is doing now with his out of continuity Justice League of America series. Slowly it will revert, in some respects, but I hope they continue with things like Omega Men, Dr Fate, and Secret Six.
I think, at the end of the day, neither of us is going to agree with the other. We've had this conversation before, and I think it'll end up going down the same route. I'm not against Nu52, you dislike it because of what they've done to Black Canary and Green Arrow and Superman. We read different comics.
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Post by thetrueelec on Aug 29, 2015 2:37:16 GMT -5
The thing i find interesting about all these articles coming out now about what DC did wrong is that it seems DC is trying, and from my experience succeeding, in fixing itself. DCYOU seems to have resulted in mostly a whole bunch of great books while mostly getting rid of a lot of the problems from the NU52.
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Post by adrini on Aug 29, 2015 13:21:15 GMT -5
Then why is it over 2 mill down within 7 months? And that's the comic section alone. There are issues as well.
And now they are committed to changing nothing. So I guess their aiming for 5 mill by the end of the year? More?
Either way, I'm making popcorn.
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Post by Drake on Aug 29, 2015 13:48:29 GMT -5
Actually 2 million is all sides of it: videogames, merchandise, etc. Also, it states in multiple un-biased articles that most of that loss came from their move to Burbank being disastrous.
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Post by adrini on Aug 29, 2015 14:46:45 GMT -5
The move was largely covered, that was a big selling point in leaving. I find that unlikely. Also several of my information sources (as in more then a few people from various directions) have stated the loss in is the comic department. Game, TV and movie have made money. Not as much as Marvel, but enough.
Are you looking at comic vine? Old school fans and critics get kicked off regularly. It almost acts as PR.
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Post by thetrueelec on Aug 29, 2015 20:50:36 GMT -5
"And now they are committed to changing nothing" DCYOU is nothing if not a commitment to change.
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Post by adrini on Sept 17, 2015 15:29:43 GMT -5
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Post by adrini on Sept 22, 2015 20:25:49 GMT -5
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Post by ericthepilot on Sept 23, 2015 14:42:02 GMT -5
Each of these articles just gets sadder and sadder. DC, people want to love you. Why won't you let them?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2015 11:32:25 GMT -5
People do love it. I love DC and buy more comics now in DCYou than I did for Nu52.
So, there's that. I just think people are less likely to take risks on things - You get people saying "Why make Dr Fate Egyptian-American. Why not do a new character? Why ruin what made Dr Fate good?"
It's not being ruined. Just expanded upon. Equally, if it was about an Egyptian-American new character with magic abilities people wouldn't buy it because "This will be cancelled in 6 issues"
Basically, unless it's Batman it won't sell because most fans are dicks.
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Post by adrini on Sept 27, 2015 12:14:07 GMT -5
You can't call it "expanded upon" when 70+ years have been erased. That's replaced.
The point is that while some, like you, enjoy the new lines there are many, many people who just are not going to get on board. Is it not liking new things? Maybe. Maybe it's loyalty to the world they grew up with. Can't blame them. Maybe so many titles being gone in six issues just makes it not worth the investment. All possible. The effect is the same - sales aren't there. I've seen it first hand at our little comic shop around the corner. Marvel titles move just fine, DC ones barely do. Some months not at all. Owner there will tell you the same, and he's newly married and looking to have a family when they can afford it. Sales would be a very good thing for them.
I'm not 100% against what they're doing, but it's incomplete. They need the old world. Yesterday. They are turning away millions a year by not having it. However I can see the new lines on the side to try new ideas and character concepts. Trying new things is a good idea. Just part of the process as well.
Telling fans to shove new things down their throat, however, or leave just gives Valiant and other comic companies sudden and amazing growth. Which is has, BTW. Same places the writers and artists Didio kicked out went. Making some seriously good stuff, really good. Better then DC-u by a long shot, writing and art. I never would have let them go.
As far as I'm concerned the new-u and new-52 have already failed, and in 10 years this will be a painful and terrible period we talk about with tones of "what were they thinking". My hope is we get a few new characters, some new forms, and put it all back together into something better. My fear is even if they do fans will be too pissed off to even care. And I can't be sure, anymore, that I won't be one of them.
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