|
Post by superecwfan1 on May 21, 2012 21:22:03 GMT -5
I'm not digging Dinah's characterization in the series. Making her boy crazy doesn't work for her in my mind. Also she seemed younger through the other issues. I thought you were going all Leon the professional on us since her introduction. Well its less boy crazy and more... she really desires this guy and has since she saw him that 1st moment. Its why she is mostly doing it for now. I have always pegged her age around 26/27 to fit with my ideal regarding her birth range and where her father (who in a later arc this fall...gets revealed) disappeared. So she was born around 1986/1987.
|
|
|
Post by buck on May 21, 2012 21:35:56 GMT -5
Hmm not sure why I thought she was younger. I think she was studying in her first appearance. That's probably what caused the confusion.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 24, 2012 11:39:27 GMT -5
I'm going to agree with Buck that this Black Canary isn't doing it for me. She isn't believable at 27 and here's why-(and I am going to be brutally honest here because I like the series and want to see it continue and improve)
if as you put in the secret files-she was a near Olympic level gymnast who gave up on her dreams she would have had to have been at most 16 at the time she gave up on the dreams-the window of opportunity to Olympic level gymnasts to get a shot at an actual Olympics birth is very narrow. If it has been a decade since she trained at Olympic levels and she has spent that time studying for a law degree and helping her mom out at the store, there is no way she has trained enough to maintain the Olympic level gymnastics she displayed in the issue.
If however it was the 2012 Olympics she was shooting for and gave up on, she would be at most 16ish now.
Now you could say, hey she's an exception, but then here's the problem...Ollie getting a shot at being an NSA agent at 18 is an exception, rising to detective in less than 2 years on the force is an exception, etc. etc. . Your Yakuza's attitudes towards Japanese culture is an exception. Everything is an exception in the story, and when everything is an exception, nothing is exceptional, it all becomes very bland, blends together, and nothing stands out. It destroys any sense of verisimilitude (i.e. sense of reality or believability) that the story and world you are creating has, which is short makes it uninteresting.
You ask us to slog through the bad grammar and mistakes...I have spent years doing so as I taught at both the university and high school levels-I got paid for it then, if you want a reader to do it, you have to give them something that is worth slogging through it for. When the end product becomes bland and uninteresting because nothing stands out as I noted above, there is no incentive to slog through the writing style.
As much promise as your first arc showed, enough to spark my interest and keep reading despite the problems, the second arc has lost all momentum and it feels like the wheels are coming off with each issue this arc. You had a great set up, were building some interesting characters, but somewhere it has gone off-track. You haven't done enough work to build on the foundation you started in the first arc to support all the unbelievable stuff in the second arc, and without the solid foundation, it is collapsing on itself.
It's not about the ideas, its about the execution of those ideas, the actual craft of storytelling (not the craft of writing). You have to continually give the readers reasons to keep coming back, not reasons to go away. Each time you stretch the believability of what you are doing, especially with street level heroes like Ollie and Dinah, you are asking for a leap of faith from your readers. Do it too often, and they stop being willing to do so. I think you are doing it way too often and it is hurting the overall series.
I like the Ollie you have set up, I like the premise, I want to keep reading good stories in this set up, but each successive issue is making it harder and harder for me to come back.
Sorry for the harsh review, but like I said I like this series and I want to see it continue and improve, I wouldn't take the time to comment otherwise.
-M
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 24, 2012 11:47:12 GMT -5
Ok here are a few ways you could have made Black Canary possibly work better...
so she gave up her Olympic dreams 10 years ago but you need a way to have her stay in shape and train so she can do the things Black Canary does...so find a way in story to do that.
To help pay for school she coaches gymnastics at a local school or helps her old coach train the next generation of Olympic hopefuls, or she is a TA at the university teaching Phys ed. classes including gymnastics so she trains all the time.
With just a little addition like that given in Dinah's back story, it goes from straining believability to the reader going oh ok I can see that and accepting what you have done. If you are at point A and want to get to point D which is where your idea for the plot/character or whatever winds up, make sure you fill in points B and C on the way for the reader. If not, it's asking too much from the reader and is in effect lazy writing. That's the craft of story telling I was talking about. Getting form where your story and characters are to where you want them to be in a manner that works for your audience. It's a lot about attention to detail and little bit of research or planning before you write the actual scripts. Figure out the course you are taking from your starting point to your end point and make sure all the steps make sense and are present for the reader.
-M
|
|
|
Post by superecwfan1 on May 25, 2012 19:09:03 GMT -5
Oh well...can't win em all. At the heart of it all...its a bunch of make believe stories anyhow lol. I'll more or less elaborate on the teenage years of Dinah Lance later more or less. #10 Is also gonna be a bit of foreshadowing of the next arc in GA.
|
|
|
Post by oberonfrost on May 29, 2012 0:09:43 GMT -5
Finally all caught up on Green Arrow! Yay.
Whether I really found Dinah's background believable or not, as others have mentioned, wasn't a huge detractor for me in the latter issues.
Background aside, you write your characters rather well. I'd definitely say that internal monologue for your characters is a strong suit for you.
GA is one of my favorite DC characters, and while this is a pretty steep change for him in some respects, others are pretty true to the core of the character I've loved for years and that's really cool. Keep up the good work man.
|
|
|
Post by Stardrifter on Jun 5, 2012 19:28:33 GMT -5
I continue to find your plots interesting but the execution wanting. The thought bubbles for Ollie and Dinah are very awkward. I can't believe that's how they think. You had an awesome fight scene set up against the gangs and then just completely glanced over it. Hell you had Green ARROW jump into it and brawl.
Proof reading aside, I like the story you're telling but I still think you have some work with the writing. Keep em coming.
|
|
|
Post by superecwfan1 on Jun 14, 2012 18:10:42 GMT -5
Thanks Stardrifter....things are gonna get more interesting in #11. Weirdly it was deleted off the one page. But if anyone missed it. Roy Harper is gonna be showing up then. Hope everyone enjoys it. #10 if I don't hear back from wachter will be posted by me by Sunday. Then I'll do Hawkman ...
|
|
|
Post by superecwfan1 on Jun 20, 2012 6:18:30 GMT -5
Hope everyone enjoys the wrap up to Green Arrow's 2nd arc. #10 is up and ready. I'm sorry if Wachter had plans to post it at some point or send it back to me. But with time and deadlines looming , I decided to edit it best I could and post it.
|
|
|
Post by buck on Jun 20, 2012 21:10:00 GMT -5
Alright I enjoyed the arc a lot more with the conclusion on top. Ollie's reasoning seemed a lot more sound on getting through to the Geisha in this issue. I'm interested to see the next arc for sure.
I do have a gripe though. I've felt these first two arcs have been decompressed a hair. I found myself having to go back and look at the previous issues a lot more then I have to with your Hawkman. So just a suggestion for ya.
|
|
|
Post by Stardrifter on Jun 23, 2012 13:59:09 GMT -5
Was a nice end to the arc. Tension in the ranks its always good. You should probably give Lonnie a codename though. Ollie yelling his first name into the mic with villains around isn't gonna help their secret identities. Keep em coming.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2012 12:57:56 GMT -5
Read the issue, and overall, the arc still didn't do it for me. Shado's betrayal was a bit predictable and by the numbers. However, I did like what you seem to be setting up for the future, so I hope future arcs will pick up. I am guessing Roy is the replacement Steel brings in, which could be interesting depending on how it is handle and what you portray Roy's personality as. I also am interested in learning more about Dinah's mother and her history, especially the teaser about her father you dropped. So while I disliked this second arc, I am hopeful things will improve.
-M
|
|
|
Post by liquidsword34 on Jun 26, 2012 14:27:48 GMT -5
I prefer some of the previous arcs you've done, but overall it wasn't bad or anything. I definitely agree that they should refer to each other by their code names, although that's something I'm guilty of as well.
|
|
|
Post by superecwfan1 on Jun 28, 2012 17:00:59 GMT -5
Lonnie doesn't have a code name yet. He's still Lonnie Machin , boy genius . Its something ahead where he does get the name he's famous for that will happen.
|
|
|
Post by superecwfan1 on Jul 14, 2012 15:30:48 GMT -5
#11 is up as we get the 1st introduction of Roy Harper. This ones a tad bit different than the DCU one.
|
|
|
Post by C_Miller on Jul 14, 2012 16:33:09 GMT -5
I liked it. Definitely a different interpretation of Roy, which would bother some, but not me too much. Roy is probably the only sidekick of the classic Teen Titans era that I don't prefer to their mentor, so it's fine by me.
I also found the Native American angle pretty cool. Good idea.
Keep em coming.
|
|
|
Post by liquidsword34 on Jul 14, 2012 19:53:08 GMT -5
I know next to nothing about Roy, so I can't comment on the differences in his character here to in the comics. However I like his origin. It's simple and effective (Good hunter=he's gonna be good working with Green Arrow), and it's original. Good stuff.
|
|
|
Post by buck on Jul 14, 2012 20:21:13 GMT -5
This arcs off to a solid start. Enjoying your take on the character. Keep up the good work.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2012 0:53:23 GMT -5
Read #11, and I have to say this arc is off to a better start than the last one. Though I have to say, if Roy is 16 and just getting to long division in his math class, he is way way behind the curve. The devil is in the details.
I do have one criticism though-this is Green Arrow and a whole issue goes by without a single appearance by Ollie. What was he up to-a scene at work, a dialogue with Dinah, working a case as a cop, something anything, but it's his book and he should at least put in a token appearance.
-M
|
|
|
Post by Stardrifter on Jul 17, 2012 10:59:18 GMT -5
I didn't like this issue at all. The race angle was way over the top. If this was set in the 1800s I could see it. The one officers blatant racism was just silly. And half breed? He's not half alien. Who talks like this?
Steel choosing Roy didn't ring true either. His current problem is that Ollie is disobeying orders and his solution is to go outside the military to a teenage boy with a history of bucking authority? Because NO ONE in the various military groups can shoot straight?
I realize this may sound harsh, and I apologize, but the issue really rubbed me the wrong way.
|
|